Escalation video review

[Guest]

Found this on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynV3WYLYm7w

 

Video tries to show the ridiculous nature of the revenant by comparing necrons to eldar at, I think, 2k each. They conclude that escalation games will result in D weapon fights, where non-D units have limited offensive value and non-flyers have no defensive value.

 

It was especially interesting because I thought the Necron army was rather poorly designed and the player inexperienced in apocalypse/escalation, while it seemed the eldar player had been using his army more than a few times in escalation. The entire video feels like they have a point to make, that they think escalation is stupid. Game plays more like a noob playing for the first time against a harsh veteran, rather than a balanced battle of equally skilled lists.

 

It's possible it's just reverant, but watching the video, it does seem like the necron player has never played escalation/apocalypse before.

-Pax

[galahad911]

Found this on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynV3WYLYm7w

 

Video tries to show the ridiculous nature of the revenant by comparing necrons to eldar at, I think, 2k each. They conclude that escalation games will result in D weapon fights, where non-D units have limited offensive value and non-flyers have no defensive value.

 

It was especially interesting because I thought the Necron army was rather poorly designed and the player inexperienced in apocalypse/escalation, while it seemed the eldar player had been using his army more than a few times in escalation. The entire video feels like they have a point to make, that they think escalation is stupid. Game plays more like a noob playing for the first time against a harsh veteran, rather than a balanced battle of equally skilled lists.

 

It's possible it's just reverant, but watching the video, it does seem like the necron player has never played escalation/apocalypse before.

-Pax

 

 

It's the Revenant. The guns + the range + 36" movement... It's just stupid. That Necron army isn't bad in my opinion, but once he lost the c'tan it was pretty much a situation where he's going to lose everything on the ground to the titan. Simply put, without using FW LoW units, there is no battle of equally skilled lists when there's a revenant involved, unless it's 2 revenants.

[Guest]

It's the Revenant. The guns + the range + 36" movement... It's just stupid. That Necron army isn't bad in my opinion, but once he lost the c'tan it was pretty much a situation where he's going to lose everything on the ground to the titan. Simply put, without using FW LoW units, there is no battle of equally skilled lists when there's a revenant involved, unless it's 2 revenants.

No, that necron army is bad and player is inexperienced against LoWs. Anhililation barges are clumped up. Opponent clearly has no idea how deadly his own exploding C'tan is. C'tan doesn't use the TLOS blocking advantages of his size - this one alone would probably solve it in his favor. No assault elements. And no ankyr the traveller (3+ roll to fire the revenants weapons at the eldar player anyone?). Oh, and no real use of the ruins terrain (remember, blast weapons declare which level they fire on and ones that don't land on the ruin fail, so being on the second or third level of a ruin confers some pretty solid defense against D blast weapons). No imotek, who's really OP in this exact type of game, both for his 4+ sieze and limiting range to 36" means the revenant has to come to you or it can't shoot as eldar don't have searchlights. No monoliths either (that LoW C'tan can use the portal).

 

Oh, and player barely even attempts to engage the non-LoW elements of the opponent's army, which ultimately, is why he loses, as the revenant is non-scoring and this is an objectives mission.

 

It might also be the revenant, but I really doubt it. The problem is that the necron player has no idea how to win this game, so is blindly marching his army forward.

-Pax

[galahad911]

No, that necron army is bad and player is inexperienced against LoWs. Anhililation barges are clumped up. Opponent clearly has no idea how deadly his own exploding C'tan is. C'tan doesn't use the TLOS blocking advantages of his size - this one alone would probably solve it in his favor. No assault elements. And no ankyr the traveller (3+ roll to fire the revenants weapons at the eldar player anyone?). Oh, and no real use of the ruins terrain (remember, blast weapons declare which level they fire on and ones that don't land on the ruin fail, so being on the second or third level of a ruin confers some pretty solid defense against D blast weapons). No imotek, who's really OP in this exact type of game, both for his 4+ sieze and limiting range to 36" means the revenant has to come to you or it can't shoot as eldar don't have searchlights. No monoliths either (that LoW C'tan can use the portal).

 

Oh, and player barely even attempts to engage the non-LoW elements of the opponent's army, which ultimately, is why he loses, as the revenant is non-scoring and this is an objectives mission.

 

It might also be the revenant, but I really doubt it. The problem is that the necron player has no idea how to win this game, so is blindly marching his army forward.

-Pax

 

Everyone is inexperienced against LoWs. The Barges were clumped because he was trying to get out of LoS because if a d weapon has LoS to a non SH vehicle, 2+ and it explodes. Yes, he moved the c'tan wrong once, but moved it there to attack the revenant. You are not going to assault a revenant, IT MOVES 36" A TURN. There is no way Anrakyr, or w/e his name is, is going to get range to use MitM because, again, IT MOVES 36" A TURN. Yes, you can hide in levels of ruins, where the objectives generally AREN'T going to be. Night fighting doesn't matter, D wepons ignore cover saves and, again,  IT MOVES 36" A TURN. 36" move + 36" nightfight range = 72" range. YOU CANNOT HIDE FROM A 12+" TALL MODEL THAT MOVES 36" A TURN. Monoliths get 1 shotted, like every other normal vehicle. Engage the other parts? When you're down FB, LB, Warlord, and the VPs for the wounds lost on the c'tan....  Yes, he likely should've tried to drop warriors on objectives turn 5, but the game didn't end turn 5, and they all would've died turn 6 anyway.

 

Revenants are just a confluence of BS. 4 StrD large blasts, 36" jump movement, ignoring any incoming damage results on a 4+ which stacks with any other kind of save you might be able to get for it. It's really just the move. If you could catch it to assault it like other titans like warhounds and the like, it wouldn't be so bad. But you won't ever catch this thing unless the guy playing it is just plain dumb. The move makes it exceedingly hard to hide from it. Thinking this thing is anything less than stupid is willful ignorance. 

[Guest]

Everyone is inexperienced against LoWs. The Barges were clumped because he was trying to get out of LoS because if a d weapon has LoS to a non SH vehicle, 2+ and it explodes. Yes, he moved the c'tan wrong once, but moved it there to attack the revenant. You are not going to assault a revenant, IT MOVES 36" A TURN. There is no way Anrakyr, or w/e his name is, is going to get range to use MitM because, again, IT MOVES 36" A TURN. Yes, you can hide in levels of ruins, where the objectives generally AREN'T going to be. Night fighting doesn't matter, D wepons ignore cover saves and, again,  IT MOVES 36" A TURN. 36" move + 36" nightfight range = 72" range. YOU CANNOT HIDE FROM A 12+" TALL MODEL THAT MOVES 36" A TURN. Monoliths get 1 shotted, like every other normal vehicle. Engage the other parts? When you're down FB, LB, Warlord, and the VPs for the wounds lost on the c'tan....  Yes, he likely should've tried to drop warriors on objectives turn 5, but the game didn't end turn 5, and they all would've died turn 6 anyway.

 

Revenants are just a confluence of BS. 4 StrD large blasts, 36" jump movement, ignoring any incoming damage results on a 4+ which stacks with any other kind of save you might be able to get for it. It's really just the move. If you could catch it to assault it like other titans like warhounds and the like, it wouldn't be so bad. But you won't ever catch this thing unless the guy playing it is just plain dumb. The move makes it exceedingly hard to hide from it. Thinking this thing is anything less than stupid is willful ignorance. 

LoWs are not new, this is all apocalypse stuff. Read the post above, I've got actual solutions there.

-Pax

[galahad911]

LoWs are not new, this is all apocalypse stuff. Read the post above, I've got actual solutions there.

-Pax

 

What solutions did I not address? You know what? You just want to think what you think. That's cool. Wear your blinders. Levels of a ruin are the only place on the entire table that you can hide and this is a solution? What game are you playing?

[spacewolved]

That video was from frontline gaming in Concord, California. The cron player is Jy2 and is one of the better players I've seen, who at the time of this video had played like two escalation games. . And the Eldar player is Reecius the owner of frontline and TO for the Las Vegas Open. And it doesn't matter what you take against the Eldar titan. It is almost unbeatable, period.

[Guest]

What solutions did I not address? You know what? You just want to think what you think. That's cool. Wear your blinders. Levels of a ruin are the only place on the entire table that you can hide and this is a solution? What game are you playing?

Lol, that's what I think your doing. Got your blinders on. You've decided it's unbeatable and nothing will sway you. You've given up before the battle started.

 

1. destoying the revenant, while important, was not the goal of the mission. The eldar should have been wiped with priority to the revenant. This was not the case and

 

2. The Transcendent C'tan can take an Indirect weapon of 48" range. it would have been easy to hide the C'tan while shooting that. This in turn is aided because of the size of the C'tan and his "slide" power. He can move 18" per turn, sliding through terrain to keep hidden. Might be able to get wraiths into assault if used in a similar fashion.

 

3. Starting units on the table left only a single viable target for the D weapons, the C'tan. Replacing the barges the Doomsday Arks, in example, would have refocused turn 1 shooting, as eldar player would have to decide between certain death of C'tan and the death of the 72" S10 ap1 arks.

 

4. Imotek would have been very useful. Both for the 4+ sieze and the night fight. Forcing the enemy to 36" range would have helped quite a bit. The S8 hits to side armor may have helped too. If 36" range could have been used, units like the triarch stalker with TL heavy Gauss and heavy destroyers may also have had use, even with cover to cope with.

 

5. As mentioned, ruin levels and void shields could have worked.

 

6. More flyers could have worked too. Might have been better off ditching the C'tan and going flyer heavy. I will note that I think in terms of defensive power, the C'tan is the weakest necron escalation option. The 6 hp skimmer is pretty weak too, but it doesn't impair your points as much. That AV14 superheavy would have probably lasted much longer than the C'tan (unless you did manage to find TLOS blocking terrain).

 

7. Ankyr the traveller could have joined the troops in the scythes. On a 3+ he can shoot the D weapons at the other eldar. Doesn't stop the titan, but does impair the eldar player. Free pivots because it's a walker's shooting, too. Use of monoliths could have also functioned instead of scythes, though I thought the scythes worked fine.

 

8. Allies. I really think that allies are very important in escalation games. You need two books worth of AT options to cope with these things.

 

 

I will note that any tactic against a revenant comes down to luck. In theory, should be able to melta it to death pretty easily, but it does greatly depend on how well you roll and how well the holofields save.

-Pax