D weapon Defense 101.

[Guest]

So, seems like most issues against D weapons relate to people not knowing how to defend your army against D weapons (Blast D weapons in particular). D weapons are not auto-win weapons, they have their short comings, same as any.

 

The Obvious:

 

-TLOS blocking terrain (or vehicles). Just about all the D weapons need TLOS. Deny that and they can't shoot you.

 

-Bunching up units/deathstars don't work against D weapons. Spread the army out. Infantry 2" apart. Vehicle squadrons at 4" required coherency should only lose a single member to D weapons of the large blast profile. Infantry should lose only a handful too.

 

-As per shooting, models are removed from the front, so having expendable members of a squad in front, while less expendable models are in back is pretty ideal.

 

-As per blast weapons, flyers are immune so long as they fly/swoop.

 

-Night fighting still impairs the range of D weapons.

 

The Less obvious:

 

-Multi-leveled ruins are king. This is because blast weapons must declare the level they are shooting at prior to shooting. If they miss the level, they miss the ruin. This means that three units on each of three levels of a ruin are considerably more durable than 3 units in the open.

 

In the case of D template weapons, ruins may only be targeted by models on equal level (likely ground) or one level above. So, in example, a revenant is officially not able to target the third level of a run with it's sonic lances, despite the ridiculous nature of this visually.

 

Also, super heavies and gargantian creatures are not on the list of models that can be on the upper levels of ruins. You could realistically prevent a charge by being unable to be brought into base contact by being a level or two up.

 

-D weapons no longer destroy the contents of transports, but they do auto-explode them 5/6 of the time. This means that a unit in a cheap transport has easily twice the durability as a unit in the open.

 

-Super Heavies may be able to shoot at different targets, but all their weapons fire simultaneously as per normal shooting. This means that they can't shoot the contents of transports they destroyed that turn and they can't use their own searchlights to illuminate the enemy in night fight for the sake of denying illumination for themselves.

 

Hope this helps.

-Pax

[Guest Mr. Bigglesworth]

Good list, seems like terrain is the biggest control factor you suggest. Which I think is true.

[Guest]

Good list, seems like terrain is the biggest control factor you suggest. Which I think is true.

Agree. Strongly suggest demanding that game has tall terrain. Ruins with 3+ levels are ideal. Close seconds are mountains, giant trees, and fortifications.

 

If playing escalation, I actually suggest requiring use of mysterious objectives. These won't hinder the LoWs, but they can roll sabotage which will be a pretty big game changer if the LoW uses up most of the points of their army. The LoWs themselves, aren't scoring, so can't benefit. This could backfire if using a flyer heavy list and the opponent get's skyfire nexus.

 

As for house rules for escalation, I've come up with two so far, neither are big game changers, but both do affect how the game is played a bit. Point is to keep the game fun, even in the face of certain defeat.

 

1: If either side has a LoW, wipes are not a victory condition. Game continues (one sided) until a clear victor is decided (or turn limit). This means that if you wipe the scoring units from the enemy army, but are wiped yourself, the only scoring VP in a normal mission would be 1 per 3 HP dropped on the LoW, plus first blood, slay the warlord, and linebreaker. In the event that the entire army on the table is wiped, but reserves remain, continue with the turns as above, with reserves arriving normally.

 

2: D weapon kills do not count for First Blood. These weapons are just too good for this sort of objective. So, modified to be "the first unit destroyed by a non-D weapon...." Note that effects related to the D weapon kill, but aren't D weapons themselves do count. In example, destroying a transport with a D weapon doesn't count, but if the entire contents are both wounded and fail saves against the S4 ap- for an explosion, that would count as the D weapon itself didn't kill them.

-Pax

[spacewolved]

Your suggestions are ok but the only real safe way to survive D weapons is void shields. D weapons erase armies otherwise. I've played 10+ since its release and void shield are the only reliable way to survive. 

[AbusePuppy]

The problem is that these could just as easily be labeled "blast weapon defense 101," and many of them don't even really apply to the units that are most worried about Str D weapons. Heavy tanks and monstrous creatures are too big to hide behind most terrain pieces- especially against a target as tall and as mobile as a titan- and can't usefully climb into ruins, don't have multiple models in a squad, etc.

[Guest]

Been getting more games in with escalation. Although the above is true, seems like the best defense against D weapons is a quick offense.

 

For the aquilla strongpoint, getting a pen is the most important thing. Results 2-7 prevent it from shooting due to snap or a destroyed building. Result 1, lowers the AV. So, getting a penetration on that AV15 is the key to defense against it's D weapon. S10 ordnance has proven ineffective against this building, as has S10 melee. You need something with armor bane or a lance weapon to reliably penetrate this building.

 

With buildings, remember about resolving the order of your shots. The weapon most likely to penetrate should fire first because it may make it easier to penetrate for the other weapons.

 

For super heavy tanks, assault is really the best approach. Monstrous creatures make quick work of the superheavy tanks. Getting them there can be a challenge, but it's not impossible. Otherwise, conventional AT solutions work against super heavy tanks.

 

With monstrous creatures, remember that in addition to S10 and ap2 with smash, your are also granted re-rolls to pen.

 

For super heavy walkers, strongly suggest trying to take out at long range. It does depend if the super heavy walker has a D melee weapon or not. If it does, only send suicidal squads into melee with it.

 

For super heavy transports, these are the biggest threats. It doesn't look that way on paper, but many armies have units that can repair vehicles from the inside. Being able to repair hull point loss means less VP and it also means that you really need to destroy that super heavy quickly. Although the lord of skulls has it will not die, that isn't the issue. It's an IG super heavy with 5x tech priests inside repairing 1-5 HP per turn. It's the stompa with mek boyz repairing 1 HP per mek boy due to the very impressive ork repair ability. For super heavy transports, you need to destroy them in a single turn, or just try to ignore them. Whittling them away all game doesn't work and wastes your AT.

 

No experience with garguantian creatures or super heavy flyers, so no comment there.

-Pax

 

PS: someone commented to me that all my D weapon defense suggestions are not defenses, just damage mitigation. It's true, but all of 40k is like that. If you want your guys to survive, don't play 40k. The best defense is not getting into fights.

 

PPS: The best solution to not having fun against D weapons is to understand what they do ahead of time. If you don't know the escalation/SA rules, the game will not be very fun. The rules are also confusing, so it's possible your opponent isn't using them right, so knowing the rules is important to playing right, which is important to having fun.

[JuliusRedwings]

I've played two games with my shadowsword.

 

The first one my opponent ignored my tank and killed most of my army while using LOS blocking terrain to minimize my shots.

 

The second game was against a White Scars bike army who spread his bikes out and started assaulting me to minimize what I could shoot at.

 

I lost both game so D weapons aren't all that scarey you just need to know how to minimize what a D can do.

[Guest]

I've played two games with my shadowsword.

 

The first one my opponent ignored my tank and killed most of my army while using LOS blocking terrain to minimize my shots.

 

The second game was against a White Scars bike army who spread his bikes out and started assaulting me to minimize what I could shoot at.

 

I lost both game so D weapons aren't all that scarey you just need to know how to minimize what a D can do.

Well, two things here.

 

First, the Shadowsword is not what people are concerned about when they fear D weapons. Easily the weakest D weapon mount in Escalation, with issues being numberous. That said, it's one of the cheapest D weapon mounts too.

 

Second, the baneblade variants cannot function in the same way that a stompa or revenant titan would. With a stompa, they can afford to build the army around it. The super heavy represents half their points in most games, and easilly a good 200-500pts will be spent in additional protection for their super heavy, as losing their super heavy will cripple their army far too much. Think of this unit as a deathstar.

 

With the baneblade variants, you need to think of it as a squadron of Leman Russes (3), no more and no less. It should represent roughly a 1/5th to 1/4th of your points. It is a DPS unit with high durablity, yeah, but it isn't a deathstar.

 

At 1k, the baneblade's role becomes that of the super-heavy walkers above. It can and must be used as a deathstar, as it represents too many of your points to not be.

-Pax

[JuliusRedwings]

Title of the thread is D weapon, sorry I misunderstood. I'll stay out in the future.

[Guest]

Title of the thread is D weapon, sorry I misunderstood. I'll stay out in the future.

Sorry, didn't intend to offend or kick you out. Perhaps I should start a super-heavy tactica....