Shooting blast/template & "unaffected" friendly models

[Guest]

Basically, you are making it WAAAAY too complicated.

 

The avatar is unaffected by flamer weapons.

 

This means he does not take the effects of flamer weapons.

 

What are the effects of flamer weapons? Wounds.

 

The avatar does not take wounds from flamer weapons.

I think you're making it more complicated. Your system has two extra steps. I'm simply cutting it off after I establish that I can't affect the target.

 

I'll also note that it's not just flamer weapons, it's weapons with the melta, soul blaze and pyromancy psychic powers, all included under that "unaffected" group. 

 

Here's one for you, how would the Avatar interact with Molten Beam? Or Spontaneous Combustion? Would you really resolve the hit and wound rolls prior to determining that he wouldn't be affected?

[pretre]

I think you're making it more complicated. Your system has two extra steps. I'm simply cutting it off after I establish that I can't affect the target.

 

I'll also note that it's not just flamer weapons, it's weapons with the melta, soul blaze and pyromancy psychic powers, all included under that "unaffected" group. 

 

Here's one for you, how would the Avatar interact with Molten Beam? Or Spontaneous Combustion? Would you really resolve the hit and wound rolls prior to determining that he wouldn't be affected?

Do you have permission not to?

 

What are the effects of Molten Beam or Spontaneous Combustion? His rules do not give him the ability not to be targeted by them, simply to not be affected by them. He only ignores the effects.

[Guest]

Do you have permission not to?

 

What are the effects of Molten Beam or Spontaneous Combustion? His rules do not give him the ability not to be targeted by them, simply to not be affected by them. He only ignores the effects.

We're at an impasse. Your convinced that only the end result effects of the list weapon types don't affect this character, and I'm convinced that we ignore everything after the weapon type is established.

[pretre]

Right, you're also ignoring the word 'unaffected'.

 

Tell me what the word unaffected means. I'll give you a hint "feeling or showing no effects or changes." Thanks, Google!

 

So tell me how targeting a model shows an effect or change.

Tell me how declaring a target shows an effect or change.

Tell me how 'ignoring everything once the weapon type is established' is not showing an effect or change.

 

That's what I'm asking for. If you can do that, I'll totally go over to your interpretation.

 

Until then, I will follow the wording, as written, that says that the Avatar shows no effects or changes (simple substitution) by all flamer weapons.

[Guest]

Right, you're also ignoring the word 'unaffected'.

 

Tell me what the word unaffected means. I'll give you a hint "feeling or showing no effects or changes." Thanks, Google!

Yeah, we're in circles here and now your arguing fluff (sadly, with GW, using the dictionary is a fluff argument...).

 

I tried to address it here:

 

If I were unaffected by bullets, would I be able to block them, would they go around me, or would people just choose not to fire guns near me for seemingly unrelated reasons?

I know, it's onto philosophy now.

 

Anyway, I'm done with this one. I know I'm right and you are convinced otherwise.

 

In-game, I'd ask the opponent how they want to handle it prior to the start of that game. Against you, I'd probably insist on a roll off.

[pretre]

We're not talking about in a game. We're talking about how the rules work. In a game, I would let you do whatever you wanted. The avatar's not going to bother me one way or another.

 

"If I were unaffected by bullets, would I be able to block them, would they go around me, or would people just choose not to fire guns near me for seemingly unrelated reasons?"

No, if you were unaffected by bullets you would not be affected by bullets. If they went around you, then you would be untouchable by bullets. If people chose not to shoot you, then you would be untargetable. Unaffected has a very particular definition.

[Burk]

yep pax. your off on this one.  I however appreciate your saying pretre was getting into fluff...yet you argued based on fluff earlier....very funny.

[Chapel]

I'm with the consensus here, just because it says the Avatar is unaffected, doesn't mean you can ignore him for targeting purposes. The bullets example is a decent one....

 

If you are unaffected by bullets it doesn't mean you can't be targeted or that the bullets cease to follow all rules of gravity and physics and fly around you or treat you as invisible.

You'd get shot, and the bullets would hit you and you would be 'unaffected' superman style.