derek Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Hey guys so a friend and I have been discussing if you can use the rules for death from the skies with the new eldar codex or even any of the newer books. My answer is yes because it's optional and it's an upgrade yout pay for and it's faction specific not really codex specific. He says no. So what do you guys think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 The fighter ace stuff? Yeah, that's still mildly legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Hey guys so a friend and I have been discussing if you can use the rules for death from the skies with the new eldar codex or even any of the newer books. My answer is yes because it's optional and it's an upgrade yout pay for and it's faction specific not really codex specific. He says no. So what do you guys think If he says he won't play with it, then it doesn't really matter if it's allowed or not. As for using Death From the Skies in normal play, as far as I can tell, there are a few sections to that book, some of which specifically describe their rules as options and others which are not. Basically, that 50-ish point upgrade for flyers isn't listed as requiring opponent's permission to use, while ever other section (like dog fighting, and the missions) are listed as opponent's permission. If you really want to use the 50-ish point upgrade, I doubt anyone would object, though it really drives up the cost of fliers without impressive gain. And it's still a random table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yea I used the eldar and dark eldar ones today and got the free 180○ pivot before movement with a crimson hunter was just brutal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yea I used the eldar and dark eldar ones today and got the free 180○ pivot before movement with a crimson hunter was just brutal So you added 50pts to each flyer that rolled for one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 He never said he won't play with it he was just stating because it came out before the new dex dropped I should wait for an faq to see if the fighter ace stuff is still legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I added 35 points to my only flyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 The leviathan book says 35 points 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I added 35 points to my only flyer Well, the Death from the Skies book requires 50pts per flyer ace for the roll on the table. Perhaps your codex offers a discount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 The leviathan book says 35 points Hmmm...checking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 The rules were updated with leviathan so those are the rules I use anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 If you wish you can upgrade any model to a Fighter Ace in missions that do not have the Fighter Aces special rule. Using a Fighter Ace in such a mission follows exactly the same rules as for a mission that has the Fighter Ace special rule, except that the upgrade increases the points cost of the upgraded model by +35 points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 The rules were updated with leviathan so those are the rules I use anyway Hmmm...found it. Interesting. Looks legal, as far as I can tell. As for opponent's permission, Looks about as legal as FW models in normal play. There aren't rules against it, but players are still within the 40k rules to refuse to use, or modify, the existing GW rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 As far as I can tell, it would not be legal to upgrade a FGC with this upgrade, but a super heavy flyer could probably be upgraded, as it is still a flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 He never said he won't play with it he was just stating because it came out before the new dex dropped I should wait for an faq to see if the fighter ace stuff is still legal To answer your question, those brilliant folks at GW still haven't updated their web FAQ regarding death from the skies. So as written, it looks like the old Death from the Skies is a current book. It wouldn't be entirely unreasonable for your opponent to insist those were legal, as they are current in the GW FAQ. That said, I think that Shield of Baal book has more balanced rules for the flyer aces in this edition. If your regular opponent is upset with your flyer being unfair, you could leave it at home or encourage your opponent to bring more adequate AA. Honestly seems like a waste of points on an Eldar flyer, as they are too fragile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yeah but that is a way to de-power an eldar list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I liked the 180 degree it was nice to just flip around and use him to be a distraction I mean that could be abused with hemlocks. Also one question I have regarding the whole one formation inside the decurion or warhost detachments can u use the wraith formation like 1 of a wraith lord and 1 hemlock and 1 unit of wraith guard can you take 1 of each of those and not be taking multiple of the same formation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yeah but that is a way to de-power an eldar list. I don't follow. If the opponent thinks your list is too potent to play with, the solutions are (a) tone down the list, (b) convince/help the opponent to tone up their list, or © find another opponent. At no point are the eldar flyers over powered. They just don't have the armor. Mind you, if your list can't cope with fliers, then all fliers are going to come off as over powered. I liked the 180 degree it was nice to just flip around and use him to be a distraction I mean that could be abused with hemlocks. Also one question I have regarding the whole one formation inside the decurion or warhost detachments can u use the wraith formation like 1 of a wraith lord and 1 hemlock and 1 unit of wraith guard can you take 1 of each of those and not be taking multiple of the same formation I have no clue regarding the new eldar detachment rules. It probably makes it very clear in the codex, but that clarity is probably written on several pages which aren't obviously related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Also one question I have regarding the whole one formation inside the decurion or warhost detachments can u use the wraith formation like 1 of a wraith lord and 1 hemlock and 1 unit of wraith guard can you take 1 of each of those and not be taking multiple of the same formation Presumably you're referring to the "Wraith-Construct" choice in the Craftworld Host detachment there, which is not a formation and thus is not restricted to only one under ITC rules. Some choices in the Craftworld Host (and Decuion and Bloodhost as well) are formations, such as the "Dire Avenger Shrine" or "Guardian Battlehost." These formations are listed later in their respective books, after the unit entries, and will be specifically spelled out. Some others (such as the Wraith-Construct) are simply choices consisting of a unit from the codex, with no bonuses or datasheet associated with them- these you can take as many as you'd like. Note, however, that Wraithguard are not available in this manner- in a Craftworld Warhost, they can only be taken as part of the "Wraith Host" formation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I don't follow. If the opponent thinks your list is too potent to play with, the solutions are (a) tone down the list, (b) convince/help the opponent to tone up their list, or © find another opponent. At no point are the eldar flyers over powered. They just don't have the armor. Mind you, if your list can't cope with fliers, then all fliers are going to come off as over powered. I have no clue regarding the new eldar detachment rules. It probably makes it very clear in the codex, but that clarity is probably written on several pages which aren't obviously related. Because spending 35 points on a poorly armored unit is 35 points not spent on a D weapon. Or wave serpents It's like buying relic armor for All your IG vehicles. It just uses points you probably won't get back in a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Because spending 35 points on a poorly armored unit is 35 points not spent on a D weapon. Or wave serpents It's like buying relic armor for All your IG vehicles. It just uses points you probably won't get back in a game. Why not just play with less points? Or is the point to make the opponent feel they had a fair battle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Why not just play with less points? Or is the point to make the opponent feel they had a fair battle? Well like for the OFCC where you we trying to de-strength a list and forge a narrative that works well. Or if you are trying to write a list for a codec thY is very very strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 The worst Eldar list (1500pts): 1 Fuegan, the Burning Lance (220) 10 Warlocks (350) 20 Storm Guardians (180) 12 Storm Guardians (108) 1 Illic Nightspear (140) 10 Warlocks (350) 8 Storm Guardians (72) 8 Storm Guardians (72) With this, you can play without fear of your opponent calling you cheesy. Unless, for some reason, they struggle with S3 5+ save models in close combat, in which case they are probably some sort of Bizzaro-person and you should them hello and that they are a good player. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I personally enjoy the fighter ace upgrade although all army list building programs still list it at 50 points. They add to flyers and when I'm running a necron air force it's cool to have those upgrades and eldar air forces the dark eldar especially can take that and tweak it for the 4 razor wings and 1 void raven bomber the I've had alot of luck with can't go wrong with flyers dropping missiles everywhere and getting a free 180 degree turn before moving or making dark eldar fearless or being bs5 the entire game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I had totally missed these and will be using them in the future. Thanks Derek for making me look them up! On a side note, lots of ways to make an already nasty tyranid or daemon FMC list even more dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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