spagunk

More necromancy.

Still looking for Blood Angel branded Storm Shields (With or without arms) and BA termie shoulder pads.  For the shoulder pads, FW or Plastic don't rightly matter. Will accept any reasonable price for them but keep in mind that currently FW pads are 16 USD shipped to my house due to currency exchange .

So i keep reading this rule and all I see is that you get to make one additional attack that hits automatically using the model's base strength and no modifiers. It doesn't say bonus, just one additional attack at I10.

So it's not a bonus, it is just an attack.

Am I too far gone to point out that hammer of wrath doesn't use a melee weapon so can't be swapped for a grenade?

But for your BA, yeah, techpriests are strong. That's a S9 ap1 melee weapon. And I think the BA one can take a jump pack (my DA and the SM can't do this). The SW one with the thunderwolf is strong too, since those can get base strength 5 for S10 ap1 melee weapons.

They take jump packs in lieu of servo arms as it is a full on replace but it's a nice mobile repair.

"OPTIONS:

• May upgrade servo-arm to servo-harness…25 pts

• May instead replace servo-arm with a jump pack…free"

Bikes are better though since you have Jink, +1 toughness and all the other good things. More expensive though but you still get your servo-arm.

Huh. Guess I've been using the servo-arm wrong for awhile then.

Hammer of Wrath isn't "Prior to combat." It is a close combat attack resolved at initiative step 10. And yes, there are models an actual initiative characteristic of 10. 

 

Reading the rules, I would imagine that you'd declare what melee weapons you intended to use for a given model at the start of fight sub-phase (before initiative step 10). Models using grenades wouldn't be able to hammer.

But hammer of wrath doesn't allow you to select melee weapons. So are you saying that if you use hammer of wrath, you can't ever use your power sword or power fist and must always use your normal strength? What about the servo arm on a techmarine? This is specifically an extra attack at initiative 1 which you would forfeit because you used your normal close combat attacks.

No thanks, I'll keep to my ~5 bucks a bottle normal black primer.

This still goes back to what hammer of wrath actually is. Must like overwatch, it's a specific extra attack that is initiated prior to close combat. So you initiate a hammer of wrath, which specifically is stated as a close combat attack that uses the models base strength with no AP value, which happens before initiative attacks. On your model's initiative, you then have your usual close combat attacks using whatever weapon you choose (grenade, hand to hand, power weapon etc.)

I don't see how one excludes the other from what I understand regarding the order of attacks.

Okay, ignoring hammer, how about the dual melee or bonus for charging. Can these bonuses be reduced, or are they not bonuses to the attacks characteristic?

This, I'd have to look up how it is worded. Attack characteristic usually assumes the "A" value of a unit stat. So if you look at Dante's Attack characteristic, he has a base 4 attacks. This should reduce it to 3 (or 2 if using two of them) but doesn't remove his charge or 2x CCW bonus.  The net effect for multi attack units would be the same but for 1 attack units this won't make a difference. That's my take on it but I will have to see what the rulebook categorizes bonus attacks for charging/CCW are (do they modify attack characteristic or just add an additional die?)

Hammer of wrath is not a bonus to the attack characteristic to me. It is a separate action due to the unit type. It's like a special rule similar to overwatch so it does not modify the number of attacks you get for assault. It does not affect your base attack characteristic at all or the attack bonuses for charging as this occurs before your round of attacks.

I've seen that army. So that's you, huh? Up against the only girl at the guardian cup....She's a fun a opponent.

It was brutal, yes. I mean she had a real good attitude but definitely was an effort in futility against her army. So many saves against anything I shot with.

Haven't found the time to properly photo the completed raider but have a shot from the first round in the tournament:

Paying for new units is going to be my biggest issue. I don't always have or can depend on having the extra cash to just buy units. The argument pretty much boils down to "buy a new army" which is really troublesome to accept.

The list I specifically posted was actually a revamp from another list which had turn two termies deep striking and then assaulting from deep strike (or 2x shooting). This was list was made by suggestion from an ITC player as they felt the LSF specifically added the shield needed to get DC into close combat. I think the worst part is that I had to chose whether to do a turn one smash fest (which opponents can deploy accordingly) or go second and see where the enemy deployed. Both armies I faced had every option available to either null deploy or deploy all at once to counter this. I guess, in hindsight, I am just used to people only choosing one option rather than have both options available at the same time.

The one army I did well on was the drunk guy who brought guardsmen with 4 russes (pask being one of them) and two artillery tanks (forget the name). Since they didn't have any deep striking/turn one deploy options I just ran full tilt and smashed everything. So with static armies I think my list would have done well but for mobile armies (more mobile than I oddly) I floundered. I did have the mobility to respond to threats but then it basically hit a brick wall. Especially for the Space marine guy who deployed 11 drop pods. With that, his turn one eliminated more than half my army with no real problems. It was just really harsh to have essentially a turn one elimination. Not saying he should have gone easy on me, just that his list was much more successful than I had ever thought possible. Definitely something I can't match with the BA codex.

So just want to chime in. I don't hate losing. Losing is natural. But I don't enjoy getting completely annihilated because I don't learn anything from it other than "Don't play". Even a heavy loss means I can analyze whether or not it was my strategy, my dice or my units that failed me here. Being full on rolled over signals to me that either I failed all three at the same time or that the other army is impervious to anything short of a tailored list against their exact army. So I don't learn to improve short of "Buy a new army, newb". Which is where I am at currently.

I did say I came into this knowing BA wasn't top tier. That is an admission that it was going to be hard but not impossible which is what I was prepared. What I wasn't prepared for was "It would be impossible given normal ITC lists" which is what I feel at this time.

Was it fun? Not for me because I feel like there was nothing I could have done short of having the same army as the other players. That's just my take on it. Knowing what I know now, I will avoid the tournament scene. My last tournament was back in 4/5th edition with my PDF codex where I got middle of the pack and actually accomplish things. Now it just doesn't seem as possible unless I get real clever somehow (which is to say, not going to happen).

Sorry if I pushed the convo to a territory that no one wanted. Wasn't my intention. Just wanted to point out that I really wasn't as prepared as I thought I was.

The front doors aren't glued shut so those are open to see the inside. Even with my Rhino's/Razorbacks I keep the doors open to see the inside. The LED's would give it some light so that you can see the details since it's much deeper than Rhinos are.

So this was my first ITC and was seriously unprepared for anything. Everything had rerolls to everything, everything had at least 4+ INV save against everything. I seriously had no idea how many units are just sickeningly overpowered compared to my units.

I also forgot that my crozius had ap3 which would have helped thin squads out. I was able to charge with my chaplain every game so it would have been great to remember that.

The most humiliating is my last game where the guy shot a single melta gun and managed to not only blow up my raider in one shot (reroll to hit and reroll penetration) but also wiped 10 DC guys due to the explosion. Bad rolls on my part I guess and feel no pain just didn't help.

I learned my lesson and will avoid any tournament. I will stick to local leagues from now on.

Completely failed. Two games ran 0-11 and one I got 9 but only because the guy was already drunk when we started.

Because I am a weirdo?

And I may be putting LED lights inside. I don't know.

One problem I have is that in order to rush things a bit for an event I will be attending, I didn't dirty up the insides any. I am not planning to glue the top piece of the raider until after I go in and add some scuffs, dirt and scrapes. Much harder to do with the thing halfway put together but I'll manage.

The other thing I wish I had was a second set of interior doors. They only give you the computer console/Utility closet and one set of doors. Would really like to cover up the vacant spaces for completeness.

I paint all my transport interiors.

My tanks (predators) don't get painted interiors. Instead I glue old 2nd edition Rhino front tank hatches on the back so it looks like the it's got more room:

I'll have to take a picture so you can see it. Makes it look more like a tank and less like a converted transport. That and the whole "overcharge" engine thing.

Painting one attack bike vs. 3 bikers + attack bike is a bit easier to swallow.

No sternguard I am afraid. It would require that I add a whole CAD or allied formation to fit them in.

More things...

...I'm refreshing a Z-Games Table ...

 

Now that's a name I have not heard in a long time.

Okay, so last call on this.

Current dilemna: Swap out the 3x grav-bikes and MM attack bike for one of the following:

• 5man "meltacide" squad (2 meltaguns, Inferno pistol) with drop pod (+extra armor on land raider).
• Another Predator of some sort
• Second DC Dread with power fists, heavy flamer.
• Vindicare assassin 
• 3x Multi-Melta Attack bike squadron
• 2x Multi-melta land speeders (1 w/ assault cannon???)

These units are all items that I have on hand. The only things on here not painted is the predator the vindicare and one attack bike. Having them painted is the important bit since I want to make sure I get the points for having painted figures. My land raider, though getting close to fully painted, took up all my extra time so I don't believe I can get the grav bikes painted in.

Kind of leaning towards the drop "meltacide" squad as that should give me instant Anti-tank where I need them. Grav should be good for knocking wounds off things with somewhat okay Anti-tank. That means I would increase anti-tank but lose out on my ability to strip wounds.