galahad911

Forget the Falcons

 

Veil of Tears was all you needed for Harlequins. I had a wicked time with them on foot, screw a transporter!

There was no reason not to take them, they were unkillable.

Veil got you a 14 inch range usually. You got shot once before charging most times if you were just walking. With the Falcon you just set it next to your opponent's army one turn, watch him be completely unable to do anything but shake it, get out and charge on the following turn. Falcon Flies away and spend the rest of the game shooting and tank shocking stuff and continuing to be unkillable. Win win

I think the big takeaway here is balancing a game as complicated and granular as 40k is SUPER hard.  Just a few outlier units here and there virtually invalidate entire armies.  

 

I would love to see Harlies be feared again.  

I remember Harlies being something people were scared of. But that was in 4th edition with unkillable holo falcons dropping them anywhere you wanted, the Harlies being able to clear the kill zones at initiative and the enemy not being able to retaliate, and being able to consolidate into new combats.

None of that is true anymore.

Good luck?

I can admit he made those armies amazing to play but it also broke them. Greatest transition of daemon hunters to true grey knights. He also made assault squads troops which is a great idea. But my opponents struggled to compete and it ruined the game play overall. I would take a happy medium of current vs ward.

Assault squads as troops, or any other slot, are still assault squads which really aren't very good.

That GK book was good at the time, but the the things that were making that book strong back then are really not strong now. 4 TL Str8 shots is just not impressive anymore. A mid point between what is good now and the things Ward wrote would put Ward on the weak end of the conversation.

like most "re-make" it paled in comparison to original.  Jokes were trite and generally stupid.  It was an attempt to make an original "politically correct" with females....sad, just sad.

Loosely translated, because it's a remake, it had no chance.

But then every other opinion of it I've heard thus far has been overwhelmingly positive. Funny that.

I'll be straight with you here man. You have gaunts in bulk, genestealers, and warriors witch no one uses. A metal Tyrant that doesn't have wings and is going to be much more difficult to get wings for it than the newer kit. and a few other MCs.

You're going to struggle to get half of what you're asking for for this since the vast majority of the models you have are so bad with the current rule set.

If you can get it more power to you tho. Good luck with that.

I didn't say hits.  

 

Also, Deathstars suffer attrition on the way in so there's that.  So yes entirely possible to get 12 WOUNDS in if you're lucky.  Takes a lot of attacks to do that but it can be done if things are ideal.  But even a Wolfstar kicking out 30 attacks is probably hitting 15 times and wounds 12-13 at full strength (or something real close to that).  I know.  But that's why you shoot them first and no answer is a perfect answer.

But they're invisible... And re-rolling their saves. Your shooting is completely wasted on those Imperial DS. That you're under the impression that you can damage one of these things with the 1 exorcist and 12 meltaguns you have total leads me to wonder if you've ever actually seen one of the DS's in question.

Best I've done is a 24...

Well...  We shall see.  Maybe GW will come to their senses

God, the Tyranid player in me, who's watched Toxicrenes die in one round to tactical squads before I could swing because of the assaulting through terrain rules, is thrilled with the grenade nerf. 

How the hell did varys get from Dorn onto the boat so quickly? Lol

There was Dornish ships in that armada at the end of the episode. I would say he rode one of those.

Thank you for the correction! Fine drop the captain change the master to a captain add the Melta gun thing to a Techmarine... And add another dread! Yay try and double me out with all that armor around to shoot at instead...

If the dreads could buzzsaw units like old blood talon BA dreads could and you'd have something there. Unfortunately GW has made dreads less and less relevant. It would be lucky to get through a combat squad in 2 assault rounds. It's just not enough damage to warrant anything more than incidental fire.

Why not?

It's not really all that difficult to hit a guy with str8+ to get rid of the FnP roll. Given that that unit is more or less your only threatening unit I don't see a problem here.

Yep. I was being mostly tongue in cheek. It would help me enormously for them to leave it alone, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea.

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually just running Flyrants and this stuff doesn't concern me too much, but I see what it does to other players and it doesn't look good.

And then you scatter your drop pods all over the board and have threat range to basically everywhere late game. I'm sure it's fun as hell for the guy who gets to punch everything to death, but a [big bad swear word] show to the guy getting punched.

So, wait, Talon you like the idea of a Thundercav Deathstar catapulting around a table and assaulting things the whole game? That sounds like a fun thing to play against to you?

Where is this stuff posted at???

How is that hyperbole? Most players throw 3 dice per WC when they need to get it off. Honestly, you always need to get powers off as if you can only successfully manifest one, then it's pretty easy for the other guy to deny and shut down your phase entirely.

 

So for a typical 2WC power, I'll throw 6 dice with odds of perils at just over 25%. That's pretty scary, especially as you do that phase or phase, game or game. It's worth the risk for big powers but not worth it for most of the little witchfire ones. I'll agree with you that the conclave is objectively better than not using the conclave - especially as it's the easiest means of fitting in multiple librarians.

 

However, I think it's pretty hard to disagree that the conclave is by far strongest when it can manifest many powers a turn, using only 1 or 2 dice per each. With an average to good WC roll and 3 librarians, I have a pretty good chance of getting off 2 powers a turn - conclave or no - and my chances of perils are high. 

 

Now that I think about it, I suspect the best way to use it would be keeping only 2 librarians close to each other and keep the third off doing his own thing.

But if you're harnessing on a 2+ you likely only need 1-2 dice more than WC to get it done. If you're harnessing on a 2+ you can throw 4 dice at a summoning, have a pretty damn good shot and getting it off, and an okay chance at maybe not losing a wound to perils. 

I can totally understand your frustration when it comes to incredibly resilient units and the frustration it can cause seeing a unit like that stroll around killing my models and feeling helpless. It sucks and is almost game ruiningly unfun. At the same time, escalating the firepower in the game is not the answer. It's a safe bet that in the not so distant future you'll play someone with a "normal" army build and if you were playing this LoW unit you would destroy large portions of their army in every turn you fired the gun, and given it's defensive abilities they would be powerless to stop the onslaught. So now you are the one playing the thing that is game ruiningly unfun. Do you really want to be the guy doing that to someone else?

If it was clear, no cheesemonger would bring it up?  That's your opinion?  i disagree.

 

Sorry but it's not unclear and those threads are started by guys like my opponent who had a momentary memory lapse or something (or God forbid, they are gaming things).  I in my heart of hearts do not beleive for one second he was trying to play it incorrectly.  i think it simply didn't occur to him.  it's not more complicated nor nefarious than that. We all make a mistake.  It happens.  

 

So this was a simple matter of me not knowing THAT models rules (thus not catching the error) and him not thinking about it until it was too late.  Nuff said.  it isn't about the legitimacy to your claim that this is in some manner cloudy.  it's not.  I don't mind you saying that you find it cloudy.  Just as long as we can agree there will be a roll off if you happen to find yourself in that state when the time comes.  Unless, as you say, there's another gratuitous and unneeded FAQ that will compel what is already understood by most.  Then we'll use the FAQ.  Sure.  why not.

Bolding of text done by me.

When you say things like this. It makes you look like an... Oh, nevermind, now I'm wasting my time too.

If it was FAQ'd and you both read the FAQ, you would have known how to play it without having to look it up; that's the whole point. If he tried a contrary move, then you could have directed him to the FAQ.

I'm pretty sure you're wasting your time here dude.

Derek, who are you playing against that is roflstomping you all the time with deathstars to have you be so salty about them? Are the people you're playing against regularly totally unwilling to do anything else? Maybe your issue is more along the lines of that you're playing against a group of d-bags. Really though, what ML said is the actual answer to the typical deathstar army builds. Kill everything else and win on the objectives. That unit can't hold more than 1 at a time and the vast majority of the deathstars out there don't have ObSec. Instead of introducing even bigger beatsticks that will be game breakingly OP against an opponent who isn't bringing the deathstar build, why not learn to play around them? The first time you fielded one of these things against, for instance a tyranid army and it killed a third to half of the bug army every shooting phase, you would be doing to that person what the deathstars are seemingly doing to you. Do you really want to be "TFG" just because someone else is pooping in your Cheerios? Let's break the cycle of d-baggery!

its actually NOT worse than no FAQ.

For the people who are complaining based solely on there being a FAQ and their not wanting to be bothered to read it, it kind of is since you're asking them to read an FAQ *and then* read addendum to the FAQ. If they are getting upset about having to read anything at all this is adding an extra step that they can't be bothered to make.

Again they aren't complaining so much about the changes nor the effect (or lack there of) but the fact that they have to even check if there is an effect. They have good games with their buddies with out the need of extra layers of rules and therefore they don't want to be bothered having to check another whole layer when they can bearly keep the GW base stuff straight.

 

Time investment is a thing some invest it in painting or building conversions, while others spend more checking rules. Personally I'd rather spend that extra 30-60 minutes every so often on making my models look cooler than learning how to construct itc lists and the rule change effects...

30-60 minutes? It's 24 pages, and you only need to read the section pertaining to your own army. This is not a huge investment of time. Whether or not you can get good games with your buddies in a garage has exactly zero relevance to whether or not an event needs to use a given FAQ. 

I'm sorry, but I'm just going to be straight up honest with you here. If a person cannot even be bothered to read a few pages of text, and that is literally the only reason they have for throwing a fit and saying they aren't going to come to OFCC... If there really isn't ANY other complaint other than I don't want to have to bother reading a 24 page document... I mean, really? How effing childish or self-centered can you possibly be?

If someone had issue with the actual content. If the changes themselves were causing the problem, I could understand the complaint. But you just don't want to have to read a few pages? Wow...

So will you be using the ITC's new way of scoring/running maelstrom missions that Hanaur just described?

If they're not using the missions, then why would they use... O.o

To be fair a big part of their complaint is it is yet more stuff to read and be familiar with and the fact that you drew on your fairly intimate knowledge continues to leave them out in the cold as it were. I'm getting the feeling it isn't the changes it is the fact that they were changed. Mostly they are garage gamers that are nice ish to one another, don't need help playing above board as it were and don't want to worry about extra layers of bureaucracy.

 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong boys.

Complaining about something being changed that has zero effect on you is silly. If there was a change that directly affected someone at the OFCC I could understand the problem. But there hasn't been any major changes that are going to have any bearing on OFCC armies. Essentially, bitching about the ITC changes is bitching that they took away your 2+ rerolled saves, or that they took away book invisibility, or your ability to kill whatever a D weapon is pointed at nearly without fail. All of those things are *terrible* for the game and, to a much greater extent, terrible for the guy on the other side of the table that is having his game ruined by unkillable units and weapons that destroy his models with no recourse. The things they've taken out of the game with the changes made have been for the betterment of the game as a whole.

Screaming "OMG they're changing rules! BAD!" when you seemingly have no idea what they've changed is really, really childish.

Wow, that's phenomenal! I have a Tau army too and was completely unaware. Thanks! lol