Constyx

32 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

I disagree with this statement a lot. 

 

If a player is losing, and they are losing consistently, all the while getting frustrated then they have a few choices. They can learn by playing a person better than them, they can learn by asking for advice, or they can learn from the free advice given. 

You are right that a player has those choices if they want to get better, but one thing to keep in mind is what makes them frustrated? Is it losing, or the overall experience of their game? I think your disconnect comes from not realizing that there are players who do not care about winning. It doesn’t enter their minds at all. So with a player having that as their mindset, giving them free unsolicited advice about stratagems and what units to bring doesn’t give them anything to work on. They want to improve their experience, not their win rate. And improving the win rate may not be what improves that specific players experience. 

In my opinion your head is in the right place. You’re asking people what their intended experience is and trying to figure it out. We talked last night and it’s evident you’re more than happy to help people improve and get into competitive play. Which makes me want to at least try it. A good step you could take communicating with people is asking if they would like to hear your thoughts on what improvements they could have done from a competitive standpoint. That way it’s clear to them that you’re looking to help vs unintentionally coming off as lording the win over them. 

I can’t comment on Ordo’s philosophy too much, but I have had similar thoughts about casual vs competitive play in games. 

In my opinion, when any game has the potential to be competitive there develops a meta. You see this frequently in MOBAs and Battle Royal games but you can also look at RTS and strategy games for other examples. This also (obviously) exists for 40k, AoS, and other wargames with a competitive scene. Following the meta and staying competitive requires a large time commitment. I would imagine that a competitive player spends just as much time going over army lists, adjusting strategies, and generally just tweaking everything until it synergies and works perfectly as they do actually playing games against people. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with this and I like that games exist out there where this is a way for players to interact with them.

But this also an experience a lot of people do not enjoy in the slightest, or at the very least don’t exist in this extreme as outlined by Dark Trainer. Some people view following competitive metas as “sucking the fun out of a game” because it optimizes everything. I personally fall into this camp because I enjoy discovering the mechanics of a game and it’s system through playing it compared to reading about it. The point of a game for me is not to win, but to more so create a memorable and fun experience. Reading strategy guides for factions, competitive analysis, seeing what the “pros” are doing, are all things that I find unappealing in most games since it robs me of discovering these things through the experience of play. And to be frank, it starts to feel like a job which is one experience I don’t want when playing games hahaha.

I also think it doesn’t help that games of 40k can take 2-4 hours. The time investment of learning the rules, assembling and painting models, putting together an army, along with buying all of the required books and finding a large enough physical space makes this hobby a high barrier to entry. And after doing all of that, you show up to play a game and you end up being outclassed to the point you don’t really get to “play”, so to speak, that it makes you wonder why you didn’t just go for a skirmish game or a normal and significantly cheaper board game. I think the feeing of frustration from that experience is understandable and one that I’ve personally experienced with other games. 
 

I think the key it is to really learn your audience and then set your frame of mind towards playing to reflect that. So when playing Crusade, pick an army that would provide narrative flavor and opportunity over competitive edge. Ask “what would make a cooler story” over “what would work best with this unit”. Learn who your audience is and what experience they’re looking for. Are they people who are into competitive or narrative as much as you? Maybe they want to get to a competitive level but have a lot to learn? Maybe they’re just as into competitive as much as you are. All of these are great! There is no “wrong” way to play this game but having people seeking different playing experiences and not communicating them can lead to everyone involved not having fun.

I personally am interested more in crusade 40k because I want to create shared narratives with other players and do custom chapters. But surprisingly I am also interested in the competitive side to a degree that I would do local tournaments and even a GT or two just for the experience. But meeting everyone at Ordo has made me keep my mind open to different experiences of play.
 

To sum up all of my ramblings: Learn your audience and the experience they want and change your mindset to play and enable it. Communicate what you’re looking for as well because it’s important everyone tries to have a good experience. And once you do these set your expectations accordingly. This is what I personally try do and for me I’ve had much more fun with games since and have had more positive experiences with other players.   

I’ll be there as well. I’ve been looking to see if anyone can teach me the basics of 40k. If not then I’ll be painting some Custodes and chatting. 

I’ll be there tomorrow. Looking to mostly chat and hang out. I have been wanting to learn 40k so I’ll have my copy of the rules if anyone is up to walking through them with me in a tutorial style game 

I’ll be out of town for a couple weeks so I won’t make it to tonight unfortunately. 

6 hours ago, Inquisitor66 said:

Also, I looked up to see if we did defense values correct...we did not.

 

The riders all have the same equipment so armor and shield are already included in the profile.

 

All the orcs have armor, but not all of them have shields so you would add +1 D to the shield orcs.  I think we would have been killing on 5's mostly instead of 6's so your charges would be more effective. 

That makes much more sense. I plan on going through the rules some more for next week. Still haven't learned the point of the thrown rider test yet.

16 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

 

I should be showing up. If so I can teach you both how to play. 

I can either play either of you or you can play against each other and I can teach you the basic rules and answer questions 

I'm still up to learning by playing each other. 

16 hours ago, sethT said:

Awesome @Jay and thanks @Lyraeus. @Constyx I’d be happy to learn with you. Unfortunately I forgot that I have a conflict Tuesday night so I won’t be able to make this one, but I should be able to make it later this week or next week.

That's a bummer. We can always learn later this week or next week. 

6 minutes ago, sethT said:

I’m a returning hobbyist looking to get in my first 40k game in over 10 years! I’ve got 1000 pts of Drukhari/dark Eldar, though it’s not all painted. Would I be able to find a game or 2?

I’ve been looking to learn 40k. There’s loaner armies you can use. If you’re willing to work through learning the rules while playing I would be up to playing a game. 

I’ll be there looking to play whatever’s available. I’ll also have the Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game to teach if anyone is interested. 

I'll be there. Looking to learn 40k if anyone is willing to teach but am also good to play any other games. 

On 5/19/2021 at 7:14 PM, Josiah said:

This is Conrad, right?  It was nice meeting you, and I hope you come back for more games soon.  I've been paring down my collections a lot lately (just went through a really huge move).  I still have a bunch of unpainted Cawdor gangers from Necromunda that I'm sure I will never do anything with.  They are yours for totes free no BS if you want them.  Check out their aesthetic and see if you like them.  It's kind of a medieval-executioner-meets-Bloodborne kinda vibe. 

Hey Josiah, it's Conrad. It was nice meeting you too and I plan on being there next Tuesday! 

Just now, Inquisitor66 said:

Yes, 1st time attendees are always welcome.

Sweet, then I will be there. 

Is tonight open to first-time attendees? Just recently got into miniature wargaming and am looking to check things out.