Alpha Legion (wip)

[Guest]

I have lots of projects going simultaneously (or rather, I hop back and forth).

 

This Alpha Legion is sticking with their traditional paint theme (blue with silver trim, green chapter logo), but I plan to have each of their chapter logos "covered" by a bit of cloth with the Ultramarine Chapter Logo, as they are in disguise as an ultramarine army. So, part of model selection is going to be about being able to swap the army between the CSM codex and the SM codex. I also plan to alternate between pre-heresy and post-heresy models and chapter logos.

 

In regards to why be able to swap, one of the main issues with any army for me is that I want to be able to ally it to my other armies, most of which are imperium. It also sounds like a neat theme to the army without major conversion work (Stock models with a bit of cloth added in a few places with an ultra "U" added in yellow). Ultramarines are probably the best fit for Alpha legion, whom specialize in unconventional attacks and happen to have the same blue main armor. A clever opponent may notices the silver trim instead of the yellow for the ultras, but in fluff, most non-SM don't have common knowledge as to the difference between the marine chapters. They will just remember the logo and those pesky ultras will take the blame for our misdeeds....

 

EDIT: photos and modeling related in art section: http://www.ordofanaticus.com/index.php?/topic/21002-alpha-legion-wip/

[Guest]

So, first Project is getting an HQ. I plan on building 3: Marneus Calgar ('cause I have the RT model), Captain Sicarius and a Librarian (or tiggy). On the CSM end, this will be two CSM lords and a sorcerer (or arihman, spelling?). They will be the same models, so wargear needs to be uniform, though some flexibility in permitted.

 

I have no intention of using cult troops (beserkers, TS, noise marines, or plague marines) as troops. I may include them as elites (which may default to them being troops with certain HQs), but I won't be building the army around the assumption of having them as troops. In modeling, I intend to make them look like the allied troops they are - so TS will be painted as TS and so forth, I will probably be keeping the theme of the "covered" chapter logos.

 

The first debate and question is this: is Air-he-man better than this?

Sorcerer (MoN, Palanquin, lvl3, Sigil, Spell Familiar, Force Staff) 205pts

Both the above sorcerer and Air-he-man would be easy to swap for tiggy, as they all have the same basic weapons. The Palanquin could be chalked up to a nice scenic basing when swapping. In terms of stats, the above is not level 4 and does not feature the ability for multiple witchfire powers per turn as the TS special character would, he also lacks 1 point of BS and 1 point of initiative, and he lacks inferno bolts. He's 25pts less expensive. On the other hand, the above is +1 toughness and +1 wound. The other notable difference is that both must roll at least one power on their respective mark's psychic power tables - debateable which is better in this respect. I personally like the nurgle table more, given that 2/3 non-primaris powers are maledictions (and useful ones at that), while Tzeentch mostly has unfluffy shooting attacks (unfluffy for thousand sons, not for tzeentch).

[WestRider]

Ahriman's ability to use multiple Witchfires at once is a very rarely usable ability, as it's kind of ridiculously unlikely to roll up multiple Witchfires that want to get shot at the same target. The best things about him are ML4 (I had to deal with him tossing out both Invisibility and Hallucination every Turn once :P ), and his Warlord Trait, which is a particularly appropriate one for Alpha Legion.

 

The Nurgle table is definitely better, tho, and an extra Wound is a big deal.

[Guest]

Ahriman's ability to use multiple Witchfires at once is a very rarely usable ability, as it's kind of ridiculously unlikely to roll up multiple Witchfires that want to get shot at the same target. The best things about him are ML4 (I had to deal with him tossing out both Invisibility and Hallucination every Turn once :P ), and his Warlord Trait, which is a particularly appropriate one for Alpha Legion.

 

The Nurgle table is definitely better, tho, and an extra Wound is a big deal.

For the fixed trait, remember that this can work against you should you want a roll on one of the other warlord trait tables (like the escalation one). I do agree that the infiltration would be quite fluffy. I could still randomly the infiltration trait. Still, I do see your point.

 

I had a game one time with Ahriman who got locked in a challenge with my dreadknight. He had 5 supporters, so it was a 4++ re-rollable (1 re-roll) with invisibility Vs the knight in melee. He couldn't really damage me, and his use of hallucinate kept failing, but I couldn't seem to kill him or land enough attacks to defeat his 4++. We stayed locked for just about the entire game.

[WestRider]

If you take another Ld10 HQ as well, a generic Chaos Lord or something, you can use him as the Warlord if you want to roll on another table for whatever reason. But Master of Deception is a really good Warlord Trait.

[Guest]

If you take another Ld10 HQ as well, a generic Chaos Lord or something, you can use him as the Warlord if you want to roll on another table for whatever reason. But Master of Deception is a really good Warlord Trait.

True enough. Hmmm....For the RT Marneus Calgar model (he's in PA), could use Huron Blackheart. Not perfectly WYSIWYG. Then I could run Huron as the Warlord for that same master of deception ability, but keep my nurgle sorcerer...

 

I suppose I could just make a model that could be both the nurgle sorcerer and Ahriman, then decide later. Looks like that HQ's appearance is picked. Calgar is pending.

 

So, for Sicarius, two options come to mind. CSM lord with plasma pistol and sword (power sword, murder sword or some other sword). The alternative would be to just use this model as an aspiring champion for the CSM army (plasma pistol+power sword). I'll probably just make it swapable betwent the two. No harm in having a cheap HQ option available.

[WestRider]

Yeah, you could roll that way, too. Huron is really fun, nice solid beatstick with some interesting utility.

[Guest]

Next question is troops. I don't intend bike troops and tactical squads are likely the backbone of any ultramarine force, so probably two squads of 10 and probably two squads of 10 scouts, even if I don't always field them exactly in this format. On the CSM end, these are 20 CSM and 20 cultists. Sounds good enough so far, though I'm not sure on models for the scouts/cultists (probably both are CCW+Pistol), or special/heavy weapon options for both forces. I probably want to steer away from grav guns and infantry mounted autocannons, as they don't translate very well.

 

For the ultramarines doctorine, I do want to include at least a single unit of devastators/havocs, probably two. Beyond that, I'm really undecided on elites, heavies and fast attack selections.

[WestRider]

Unfortunately, a few of the best options for each force don't translate to the other. The Autocannon or double Special is usually the best option for CSM, for instance, while I find the Multi-Melta to be the most useful Heavy in a Tactical Squad.

 

Missile Launchers are probably your best bet for Tacs, but a Lascannon Dev/Havoc Squad might not be a bad idea.

[Guest]

Unfortunately, a few of the best options for each force don't translate to the other. The Autocannon or double Special is usually the best option for CSM, for instance, while I find the Multi-Melta to be the most useful Heavy in a Tactical Squad.

 

Missile Launchers are probably your best bet for Tacs, but a Lascannon Dev/Havoc Squad might not be a bad idea.

Of note is Ultramarine chapter tactics on the loyalist end. Relentless devastators can charge after shooting, even if they can only do it one turn per game, does make for an unconventional usage - I'm tempted to kit a devastator squad for assault.... On the CSM end, I can field units of 20 for most troops, although I don't gain any additional weapons, it certainly can change their value in the army. The CSM havocs can also take 4x special weapons making them closer to a SM command squad than a devastator squad.

 

I did find that I have a old CSM dread, so I've got a hellbrute/dreadnought to add to the mix. I could certainly make it an Ironclad. I also think I have a very beat up land raider I set aside for my CSM a long while ago, but still haven't done anything with it.

 

Oh, not mentioned in this thread, but in the artificer's subforum, is that I have 2x FW CSM Dreadclaws. I will be including them in the SM list as drop pods, until GW permits pods/claws in normal CSM games.

 

Not everything in the army needs to translate perfectly, a few flavorful swaps in each seems very logical. I intend to field a small unit of thousand sons (pre-heresy) as an elites choice for the CSM, though I don't intend to use them at all with the SM. Though for some units, it would be very ideal if they could at least pose as another vehicle/unit if we swapped. Like a forgefiend that "transforms" into an SM Stalker, or just a forge fiend with a large "inconspicuous" blue tarp that covers everything but the guns...

 

The goal is an army that the Imperial Guard, and maybe a few SM chapters, would mistake for Ultramarines, even if the Ultramarines and the inquisition would certainly not be fooled. It should add a level of irony when I use these "ultramarines" as allies for my DA...

[Guest]

Hmmm...well, for rules, it becomes clear very quickly that the black templars are, ironically, the best fit for the CSM rules in terms of play style and army design. That crusader squad is pretty similar in function to the chaos marine squads in terms of options. The challenge bonuses function in a manner that encourages challenges, something the CSM are forced to do anyway. The Adamantium will functions in that the templars don't use psychic defenses other than that, while the CSM just don't have any psychic defenses. The Crusader USR fits well with slaanesh, but not really with CSM as a whole.

 

I am tempted to make a loyalist unit of "warp talons" using vanguard vets. The funny bit is that the vanguards are way more expensive than a fully tooled out warptalon unit. I'm looking at 260pts for 5x vanguards with paired lightning claws and jump packs. I'm looking at 190pts for 5x warp talons with MoS, veterans of the long war and stock weapons (paired lightning claws). I understand the talons are less versitile than the vanguard, so that's where most of the cost difference is, but still, very expensive. That said, some of the CSM units are much more expensive than the SM ones (like stalkers replacing forgefiends...).

 

Okay, so another one that comes to light would be devastators/havocs with heavy bolters. The CSM can take this, as well as being able to take that "icon of flame" which grants the HBs the soul blaze rule. The Devastators don't do this, but they do have the ability to assault after firing (once per game, ultra tactics). In general, use of heavy bolters is certainly unconventional in most 40k infantry units, so it does fit the bill of unconventional tactics, even if they aren't unconventional in fluff. They do have enough shots to move and fire as a unit, which is certainly an interesting way to run devastators/havocs.

 

just thoughts.

[Guest]

Hmmm...back to the CSM end of ideas. Peeked at that black legion supplement. Wow. That does change some things. Not sure I want chosen troops, but as I read it, I can still field cultist, CSM, and god specific troops if I want - with the only limitation being a requirement for vet upgrades on everything (which I would probably take anyway). I'll probably be going from this supplement on the CSM side of things. The artefacts are amazing for this supplement and would really aid the army if taking non-special HQs.

 

I did peek at the crimson slaughter book and it wasn't to my taste. Great for khorne, but not a direction I want to take my army. I will note that it is of great benefit from a Daemon player's perspective, as it permits inclusion of daemon troops on the CSM end of things (matters for a few abilities or could matter for theme). Possessed Troops do have great potential as a melee version of the TS units (5++ stock, 4++ with MoT).

 

My two dreadclaws are gradually getting striped. It's probably taking longer than it should.

[Guest]

How wrong is it to take a mark of nurgle and the Crucible of Lies on the same character? Idea is an undivided character with access to the palanquin upgrade, as the additional wounds are really important for a sorcerer warlord. I'd basically end up with a 4 wound sorcerer that got re-rolls of 1 to invulnerable saves and rolled 1 power on the nurgle psychic power table. It would be 65pts for the mark, palanquin, and crucible of lies.

 

Also, if I went with Lost Memory of the Yuranthos to make a sorcerer level 4 and had a mark, would I be able to take 2 powers from the mark's psychic table, or 1 power from that table?

[WestRider]

No particular reason not to take the Crucible and Mark together.

 

You get 1-2 Powers from your God's table at either level 3 or level 4. It's a minimum of 1, and a max of half your level, rounded up.

[Guest]

No particular reason not to take the Crucible and Mark together.

 

You get 1-2 Powers from your God's table at either level 3 or level 4. It's a minimum of 1, and a max of half your level, rounded up.

Thanks. Couldn't find the "rounded up" note.

 

Another I can't find is any notes of which of the BL artefacts replace other weapons like the CSM artefacts do. I certainly see the limit of one of each per army, but can't find the character limit. As I read it, there isn't one, but that seems fishy.

 

That eye of night really seems like a must have option in a BL list.

 

Related, how is that hand of Darkness? It looks like a much improved melta bomb, but I remain unclear if it would be viable.

[WestRider]

As far as I can tell, the BL Artefacts don't replace a Weapon. It's one of the reasons I like the Spineshiver Blade for a DP, despite the extra Init being kind of pointless, because it lets him get an extra Attack for 2CCW. And yes, you seem to be able to take as many as you like.

 

The Crimson Slaughter can explicitly take more than one per Character (Kranon is described as having like 3 of them), and I think only a couple there are described as replacing a Weapon.

 

The Eye of Night seems really expensive to me for a one-shot, but I know Lord Hanaur has had good results with both it and the Hand of Darkness.

[Guest]

As far as I can tell, the BL Artefacts don't replace a Weapon. It's one of the reasons I like the Spineshiver Blade for a DP, despite the extra Init being kind of pointless, because it lets him get an extra Attack for 2CCW. And yes, you seem to be able to take as many as you like.

 

The Crimson Slaughter can explicitly take more than one per Character (Kranon is described as having like 3 of them), and I think only a couple there are described as replacing a Weapon.

 

The Eye of Night seems really expensive to me for a one-shot, but I know Lord Hanaur has had good results with both it and the Hand of Darkness.

Thanks.

 

Yeah, one-shot seems a bit risky. Still, 75pts for d3 auto-pens on a building/vehicle is not lacking, especially when it denies cover. I personally see more merit with this against buildings than against vehicles, as buildings like the aquilla presents an issue with very limited CSM responses. I'd also note that it lacks a minimum range, so you could DS/fly within 12" of a void shield generator and probably do some major damage to the generator as it doesn't benefit from its void shields if you get that close. The denial of cover presents a pretty solid night fight AT option.

 

As for that hand of darkness, very iffy. On the one hand, it should do pretty impressive damage to anything hit that lacks an invulnerable save. On the other hand, you could miss or the target could have eternal warrior and/or an invulnerable save.

 

So expensive for all these fun upgrades...