Guest Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Been running DA for my exorcists, then adding BT allies. I'm testing the idea of just switching to just SM if only for the reason that I'd enjoy transporting less books...Chapter and special character suggestions welcome. Non-chapter SM + MT 1850 HQ Chaplain (TDA, Combi-melta) Non-slot HQ Techmarine (Servo Harness) Elites Assault Centurions (3, hurricanes and TL flamers) -Dedicated LRR (MM) Troops Scouts (10) Tactical Squad (5, Flamer, PP+CCW on Vet) -Razorback Tactical Squad (5, Flamer, PP+CCW on Vet) -Razorback Heavy Vindicator Vindicator Thunderfire Fortification Vengeance Weapon Battery (2, both Quad Icarus) MT HQ Scion Command Squad (5, 2x MG) Troops Scion Squad (5, 2x MG) Scion Squad (5, 2x MG) Total 1845pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Seems like the scions are just gonna get bushwacked. Idk I'm just not sure I like the synergy. With how you plan to be aggressive with the raider and centurions it could make things awkward with two vindicators. One bad scatter and the raider is high and dry or worse the centurions are. Maybe lascannon preds instead? What does the techmarine do? The scions? Idk just seems small on unit count for 1850, and I worry that you'll have a hard time doing things if the raider dies turn one or the centurions get tarpitted. Is this for an event? Am I just being a jackass and totally missing some subtle tactic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Seems like the scions are just gonna get bushwacked. Idk I'm just not sure I like the synergy. With how you plan to be aggressive with the raider and centurions it could make things awkward with two vindicators. One bad scatter and the raider is high and dry or worse the centurions are. Maybe lascannon preds instead? What does the techmarine do? The scions? Idk just seems small on unit count for 1850, and I worry that you'll have a hard time doing things if the raider dies turn one or the centurions get tarpitted. Is this for an event? Am I just being a jackass and totally missing some subtle tactic? First, I'm always small on unit/model count. Seems to be a player thing. Not saying I won't tweak the list at your suggestion, but it's just a reoccurring thing for me and my lists. As for the units and how it functions: LRR holds 12. Each Centurion is 3, for 9 slots. The TDA chappy is 2 slots, for 11. The Techmarine joins this for 12. In my experience, I've found the techmarine onboard any LR can really make the difference in whether the LR get's its cargo to the destination or not, given their ability to repair as it moves. I've used this set up a few times, in most games it's total overkill as my opponent doesn't have a comparable deathstar/vehicle worth assaulting. Still, unit is here in the off chance that I have a super heavy to cope with. As for why the LRR vs the LRC, I've found that I mainly use the TL assault canon and MM, with side weapons on either being mostly wasted for me. I've found the LRC generates much more threat than the LRR, so if I want to get my unit to it's destination, having the LR that is ignored more often is pretty ideal. The LRR is also 10pts cheaper. Scions are nice. I'm looking at 90pt units with 2x melta guns and free deep strike. Ideally, I wanted plasma, but I ran out of points. might tweak it to get the plasma back. As for the command squad, deal is that they have some neat orders. In particular, they've got one that makes their hot lasguns only able to fire 1 shot per model, but they gain the sniper and pinning rules. This means they wound on 4s with their AP3 weapons. It's nothing major, but it means a nasty surprise for high toughness enemies with 3+ armor. Unit is 85pts. I do expect the scions to die pretty soon after they arrive. I'd be happy if they survived, and they do have the saves and leadership for it to happen, but I expect them to generate a bit of threat. I will note that scions are BBs to the SM, so they can embark in the dedicated transports on later turns, should I need to hide them for a bit. Scouts might get replaced with something else or tweaked. I've found them to be a great toolbox unit. Krak grenades, frag grenades, outflank, infiltrate, scout, light assault, tarpit and so forth. I'll probably find the points to replace with an ironclad dread, now that I think about it, he's my "scout" dreadnought and works very well with high AV themed armies. Vindicators destroy things, and also take a lot of threat away from the land raider. Vengeance weapon batteries are a new addition. I tested the hunter and stalker recently, but wasn't impressed. I've used the FSR in the past, but it's both more expensive and a potential liability if the opponent captures it. The vengeance weapon batteries are worse, but they do add to the number of high AV targets in this list. I may swap the weapons for a higher threat battle cannon or punisher. Basically, I've got 2x AV13 units and 3x AV 14 units. Since these targets usually require weapons in limited number in the opponent's army, usually what happens is they don't know what to do and have loads of issues with target priority. In alternative, they're army is screwed because they don't have enough weapons to realistically damage the list and I get to engage just the elements I need to in order to secure a win. Yeah, I could get unlucky and face an opponent kitted specifically for AT. It happens all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 And yeah, LRR could die turn 1 and it would be a problem. That said, if it's because opponent focused on the LR and ignored my other high AV targets, I might still win. Vindicators will do much more damage turn 1 if you ignore them than the LRR will, as the LRR is really only a high value target turn 1 if you intend to come to me. If you intend to let me come to you, the vindicators are a much better target. If they tried to DS, like with a melta pod team, I do have those snapping interceptor lascannons to maybe remove the melta guns in their own movement phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 The Vindicator's range just seems really short. Idk I guess I just don't see how the army stays on the board long enough to stick around and do the damage you may need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 The Vindicator's range just seems really short. Idk I guess I just don't see how the army stays on the board long enough to stick around and do the damage you may need. Well, this army is tweaked from one I've been running that has a few more tanks (rhinos) and hunters instead of the vengeance weapon batteries, so I'm not 100% on this army. As for vindicator's threat range, maybe you should try one. It's a 30" threat range in an edition where all standard deployments start 24" apart. As for the durability of high AV armies, it really depends what your normal army is. Eldar, with their lances, fire dragons, and wraith-units, will find high AV lacking. Tyranids, on the other hand, really have major difficulty dealing with high AV at long range, so they allow me a few extra turns of shooting while they get to charge range. Thing is that because of how much AT is out there, less people field high AV, so less people bring it - this has given rise to armies that feature almost exclusive use of S7-8 weapons for AT, which are rather lacking against AV13-14. In addition, my vehicles often have cover saves, just because I tend to play with a lean towards defensive rather than offensive. Anyway, it's not the sort of thing that looks good on paper, but the sort of thing that often makes for a tough battle in game. It is a work in progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 More thinking on this one, as it's a hacked down 2k army being forced to use one codex instead of 2, then allied to MT. really cheaped out with this one. Here's it again (second attempt): Exorcists 1850pts (Black Templars) HQ Chaplain (TDA, MB, Combi-MG, Warlord) Elites Centurion Assault Squad (3, Hurricanes and flamers) Troops Crusaders (9, 4 CCW+BP Neophytes, 4 initiates, MM, PG, sword brother w/CCW+BP) -Rhino Crusaders (9, 4 CCW+BP Neophytes, 4 initiates, MM, PG, sword brother w/CCW+BP) -Rhino Crusaders (5, 4 initiates, Flamer, sword brother w/CCW+PP+MB) -Razorback (HB) Crusaders (5, 4 initiates, Flamer, sword brother w/CCW+PP+MB) -Razorback (HB) Heavy Pred (AC) Pred (AC) Thunderfire (stock) Fortifications Vengeance Weapon Batteries (2, Quad Lascannons) Allied MT HQ Scions Command Squad (5, 4x Plasma) Troops Scions (5, 2x MG) Scions (5, 2x MG) Fast Valk (Multi-laser and hellstrikes) Total: 1850 Before you ask, yeah, idea is to put the centurions and chaplain in the valkery and arrive via the sky...Gutsy and probably suicidal, but very black templar... Scions deep strike, Mech pushes from the front, vengeance batteries draw fire and hinder air/reserve units. In case wondering about the 9-man squads, deal is 1 neophyte for each 5 initiates, with the squad leader not being an initiate, so I'd have to get another bolter guy and it doesn't add enough to the unit. Crusaders lack the combat squad rules, so no advantage with 10 per unit. Not testing the grav weapons at this point, not other reason I'm not fielding them. Very tempted to drop the thunderfire for a whirlwind, just for the 35 points. Also tempted to take grenade launchers on the MT command squad just to see if they can get those to work...save 40pts int the process. I'm not overly tied to the templar chapter tactics. If I ditch them, I would also ditch the upgrades on the squad leaders, as the extra attack is why they are vets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Tried to give the DA another chance. Ran this list (below) for GG league this week. HQ Sammy (speeder) Troops Tactical (10, MM, PG, CCW+BP vet) Tactical (10, MM, PG, CCW+BP vet) RW Attack Squad (4, 2x MG, MB) -Attack Bike (MM) Fast Black Knights (3) Black Knights (3) Black Knights (3) Heavy LR LR Whirlwind Fort 2x Vengeance weapon batteries with battle cannons Total 1850pts. Opponent was eldar. I out flanked the bikes, so I had nothing but a concealed whirlwind and 5 AV14 targets on the table. I rolled very bad reserves and outflanks, so our game was very slow paced. First blood was achieved by the opponent on turn 3...None of the AV14 vehicles were destroyed, only one took any damage all game. Needless to say, I was not impressed with the battle cannon vengeance weapon batteries. I strongly suspect they would be better if my opponent had brought a melee horde, or if we had less tall LOS blocking terrain on our table. Opponent got victory, though we were using the maelstrom objectives, and I strongly suspect that the missions I drew were considerably less attainable than my opponent's. Not bitter, it was a fun game, I just mean I don't think the loss was related to the list or my playing. In terms of list failings, I didn't bring enough cover denying AT options. I should have brought a more dedicated melee unit too. Beyond that, I think including a psyker, or psychic defense would have been wise, though my opponent rolled a 5 for psychic dice each turn, so his eldar had 10 dice to cast with every single turn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 In the first list something that jumped out to me was finding 10 pts to make that tech marine a master of the forge. Two wounds and an extra attack are totally worth 15 pts when giving a regular tech marine the full harness. For those small squads I'd go sentinels of terra or just normal imperial fists and drop the flamers. Sentinels world bump your book back up but only really twin link bolt weapons at half range. They have a warlord chart and some force organization shenanigans but nothing of consequence to you. Small squads that bail out late and close to the enemy rock having twin linked! And the ten points from the flamers allows for that master of the forge for an extra power fist attack and one more wound up in the attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 In the first list something that jumped out to me was finding 10 pts to make that tech marine a master of the forge. Two wounds and an extra attack are totally worth 15 pts when giving a regular tech marine the full harness. For those small squads I'd go sentinels of terra or just normal imperial fists and drop the flamers. Sentinels world bump your book back up but only really twin link bolt weapons at half range. They have a warlord chart and some force organization shenanigans but nothing of consequence to you. Small squads that bail out late and close to the enemy rock having twin linked! And the ten points from the flamers allows for that master of the forge for an extra power fist attack and one more wound up in the attack. I considered the master of the forge, but in his role via that list, his entire purpose is to repair the LR he rides in. The 15pts don't add to that role. In my experience with assault centurions, they are overkill against every opponent (so far). The chappy re-rolls hits, which is a major bonus for them. I've found the techmarine doesn't matter in assault for that unit, so I leave him inside the land raider while the rest of the unit disembarks and assaults. As for sentinels, I'm not interested in buying another book. At present, I'm trying to consolidate my loyalist marines into a single codex, so I have less to carry (yeah, a lazy reason like that). Toss up is between DA and C:SM, both have great elements, I just wish I could combine them without needing two books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Good points... For ease you could go with stopping the flamers giving the Sargents combi weapons and using salamander tactics. Master crafted weapons on every character for free is cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Good points... For ease you could go with stopping the flamers giving the Sargents combi weapons and using salamander tactics. Master crafted weapons on every character for free is cool! I do very much like salamanders chapter tactics. I've had good results with the plasma pistol/flamer 5-man squads, especially when paired with the razorbacks. As is, they work much better with salamanders chapter tactics (MC plas pistol and TL flamer....). I like them, but it really doesn't fit my fluff very well. I like the black templars chapter tactics, but I think their lack of psyker access is of greater hindrance than their chapter tactics gain them in advantages. In terms of fluff, the templars don't really fit the Exorcists, though the two chapters would get along perfectly... I do like the ultramarines, both special characters and chapter tactics. Technically, I think this is the best choice in terms of fluff too, given that Exorcists aren't supposed to deviate from codex astartes any more than having 2 extra scout companies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Ultramarines are powerful but complicated. Timing on those powers is the key! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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