750 Mean Daemon List

[galahad911]

Nurgle DPs with wings shouldn't really ever be swooping.

[AbusePuppy]

FMCs shouldn't really ever be gliding.

[galahad911]

FMCs shouldn't really ever be gliding.

 

Okay, so what exactly is a nurgle player going to do with a swooping DP? My comment was in response to the one above it. A Nurgle DP with it's 2+ cover and no access to guns isn't going to accomplish anything swooping.

 

I know you have a reputation to uphold, but being a jackass *all* the time isn't necessary. 

[AbusePuppy]

Okay, so what exactly is a nurgle player going to do with a swooping DP? My comment was in response to the one above it. A Nurgle DP with it's 2+ cover and no access to guns isn't going to accomplish anything swooping.

 

I know you have a reputation to uphold, but being a jackass *all* the time isn't necessary. 

 

He's going to cast Summoning (or Incursion) while flitting around the battlefield, ready to drop down and take an objective in the final turns of the game, that's what. While it's not terribly exciting, the Plague primaris power is certainly something a lot of opponents won't be able to ignore, either, as it cuts through armor and ignores cover. Daemon Princes really aren't all that great in melee due to T5, lack of EW, and lack of grenades- trying to force them into that role will always be lackluster at best.

 

Also, calling me a jackass for posting pretty much exactly the same thing you did (but with a different viewpoint) is awfully hypocritical of you. I don't give two [big bad swear word]s about my "reputation" that you seem to think is so dear to me- if I did, I probably wouldn't be posting in a minor regional forum like Ordo. I post here because I like talking about Warhammer, not because I jerk off to the thought of being King Warham.

[galahad911]

He's going to cast Summoning (or Incursion) while flitting around the battlefield, ready to drop down and take an objective in the final turns of the game, that's what. While it's not terribly exciting, the Plague primaris power is certainly something a lot of opponents won't be able to ignore, either, as it cuts through armor and ignores cover. Daemon Princes really aren't all that great in melee due to T5, lack of EW, and lack of grenades- trying to force them into that role will always be lackluster at best.

 

Also, calling me a jackass for posting pretty much exactly the same thing you did (but with a different viewpoint) is awfully hypocritical of you. I don't give two [big bad swear word]s about my "reputation" that you seem to think is so dear to me- if I did, I probably wouldn't be posting in a minor regional forum like Ordo. I post here because I like talking about Warhammer, not because I jerk off to the thought of being King Warham.

 

Balesword DPs with access to Biomancy and a 2+ cover save isn't lackluster against anything but a Waveserpent. Not everyone is playing serpentspam.

 

What I posted, was in response to a very specific thing, getting nurgle DP into assault. Since they can be very hard to kill with he right set of powers rolled, and can glide around with a 2+ cover, there's not really any need to be swooping unless the world is covered with serpents. So my comment was very different than yours. That you cannot see that is why I called you a jackass.

[fluger]

[galahad911]

:P

[Guest]

@galahad911: I agree with you entirely, but you did seem to come off a bit stronger than I think you intended. 

 

As for taking armor entirely to defend against serpent spam, I gotta say that serpent spam, while common for eldar, isn't the most common opponent I face. Marines with grav spam are much more common for me to face than serpent spam.

 

I agree that having a 3+ armor is better than the stock 5++ against cover denying weapons. That said, if using daemonology, the warpstorm table, or the skyshield landing pad, a 4++ might be enough if used in concert with 2+ cover.

 

Nurgle doesn't exactly have a lot of BS based shooting attacks. Serpents, in example, would need to be met with daemon assault troops. They don't really have very many ranged solutions for serpent spam. You'd probably need to gamble with an all-out assault.

[AbusePuppy]

Balesword DPs with access to Biomancy and a 2+ cover save isn't lackluster against anything but a Waveserpent. Not everyone is playing serpentspam.

 

What I posted, was in response to a very specific thing, getting nurgle DP into assault. Since they can be very hard to kill with he right set of powers rolled, and can glide around with a 2+ cover, there's not really any need to be swooping unless the world is covered with serpents. So my comment was very different than yours. That you cannot see that is why I called you a jackass.

 

It's also lackluster against Thunderwolves, Knights, Guardsmen hordes, Daemonic deathstars, and lots of other things. When I talked about "lackluster," I wasn't talking about its ability to survive shooting (that's a different issue), but its melee output. Without an armor save, Krak Grenades kill you- you aren't going to get Iron Arm every game and you're not going to succeed it every turn. Without assault grenades, charging into terrain will be very dangerous- doubly so if the enemy has Krak or other high-Str weapons at their disposal. Without Eternal Warrior, you can't reasonably expect to fight many of the S10 hitters out there (including Wraithknights, Knights, and Thunderwolves, all very common threats.)

 

I realize you posted in response to the assaults comment, but my response was to yours because trying to get DPs into assault is a mistaken premise from the start. It's like asking "How can I make my Fire Warriors good in assault? I keep charging them into Marine squads, but I can never seem to win!" Answering the question does no good because the question itself is flawed.

 

But apparently believing that makes me a jackass, so good job there, guy.

[Guest]

It's also lackluster against Thunderwolves, Knights, Guardsmen hordes, Daemonic deathstars, and lots of other things. When I talked about "lackluster," I wasn't talking about its ability to survive shooting (that's a different issue), but its melee output. Without an armor save, Krak Grenades kill you- you aren't going to get Iron Arm every game and you're not going to succeed it every turn. Without assault grenades, charging into terrain will be very dangerous- doubly so if the enemy has Krak or other high-Str weapons at their disposal. Without Eternal Warrior, you can't reasonably expect to fight many of the S10 hitters out there (including Wraithknights, Knights, and Thunderwolves, all very common threats.)

To verify, how would the armor save help against Thunderwolves, Knights, Guardsmen hordes, daemonic deathstars and "lots of other things"...?

 

If the solution is to stay airborne and summon creatures, which nurgle creatures summoned provide solutions to the above?

 

Or is your point that nurgle is lacking?

[AbusePuppy]

To verify, how would the armor save help against Thunderwolves, Knights, Guardsmen hordes, daemonic deathstars and "lots of other things"...?

 

If the solution is to stay airborne and summon creatures, which nurgle creatures summoned provide solutions to the above?

 

Or is your point that nurgle is lacking?

 

The armor save doesn't help against most of those units (although against Knights and Daemstars, you do actually end up taking a decent number of non-AP3 wounds, but it's unlikely to actually save you.) As you say, the solution is to keep flying. Plaguebearers are surprisingly decent against Knights, actually, though not as good as Screamers. Plague Drones are a pretty decent combat summon, and while a Herald of Nurgle isn't ideal it can still roll once on Maelific and/or bring a Portalglyph to the table, so you could do worse.

 

Committing yourself 100% to any of the four Chaos Gods is going to be a major limiter on your army's power, so it's not just that Nurgle is lacking. Nurgle actually has a lot of pretty good units available in CSM, Daemons, and Renegades, but when you choose not to use three-fourths of the codex you're obviously going to give up on a lot of good answers to things. I can understand the impulse and I get that theme armies are a thing, but it's good to know what you're giving up.

[Guest]

The armor save doesn't help against most of those units (although against Knights and Daemstars, you do actually end up taking a decent number of non-AP3 wounds, but it's unlikely to actually save you.) As you say, the solution is to keep flying. Plaguebearers are surprisingly decent against Knights, actually, though not as good as Screamers. Plague Drones are a pretty decent combat summon, and while a Herald of Nurgle isn't ideal it can still roll once on Maelific and/or bring a Portalglyph to the table, so you could do worse.

 

Committing yourself 100% to any of the four Chaos Gods is going to be a major limiter on your army's power, so it's not just that Nurgle is lacking. Nurgle actually has a lot of pretty good units available in CSM, Daemons, and Renegades, but when you choose not to use three-fourths of the codex you're obviously going to give up on a lot of good answers to things. I can understand the impulse and I get that theme armies are a thing, but it's good to know what you're giving up.

Interesting conclusion.

 

Not sure I agree with nurgle only functioning a summoning platform, but I do see your reasoning.

 

As for the armor, if plan is a summoning platform, I don't see the merit of the armor. You've already got the 5++, which can very easily become a 4++ via daemonology or a half-dozen other methods. You also have the 2+ cover. I'm not seeing that 3+ armor having a large enough impact. Worst case, daemon should hide out of LOS while summoning.

 

I do agree that mono-god lists are a limiting to the army. For my Tzeentch, I'm looking into mono-god for the initial list, but to branch out to certain other daemons for summoning.