Summoning House ruling?

[Threejacks]

OK,so my oldest boy and I have been playing a lot of AoS the past couple of days trying out a new campaign system im working on,more on that in my other post.Hes been using our Undead collection and ive been running my Stomcast.Hes been doing a lot of summoning and im still not seeing a big problem with it.

 

The main issue with summoning from all the reading ive done on it since the game released is with wizards and chain summoing.This is why Daemons have such a bad rap on the topic as I don't think the undead have wizards that can be summoned and im almost certain Seraphon don't either.Now there may be other ways to bring in models that can summon but those are usually pretty isolated.

 

So now that we have a Daemons of Chaos player on board, Welcome Pax:).Perhaps its time to try out some house ruling on this.

 

I propose this..seeing as when a unit is summoned to the board it counts as having moved,isint that pretty much the rules stating that it enters the board and is usable after the movement phase?.since it can act normally after that phase?.So with this rational wouldn't it make sense to just say that models summoned in cant act at all until after the movement phase...as in cant use hero abilities or summoning.

[Guest]

Lol...wonderful welcome to the group. I've only got that one game, but I have been studying the rules. So far, I've only found a few broken applications for anything.

 

For others, our comp system was:

 

 

8-10 War Scrolls Army
100 wound army cap
25 wound scroll cap
1-3 Heroes/Wizards
0-3 Warmachines
0-3 Monsters

No duplicate named Hero/Monsters

All from the same main faction

 

It is very noteworthy that I can only include a maximum of 3 starting wizards, of which, my opponent has the same access to starting wizards. For every summon I attempt, my opponent can easily have a wizard set up to counter.

 

The summoning spells aren't any harder to dispel than any other spell. Each faction (order/chaos/death/destruction) has handfuls of counter-wizard options, which can greatly reduce the summoning potential of any list.

 

Beyond actual counter-spelling, most wizards are rather vulnerable to artillery, especially weapons which ignore LoS requirements. This is because wizards are typically more squishy than their non-wizard counterparts and AoS lacks the independent character rules that make heroes so fearsome in 40k.

 

There are also a good deal of passive abilities which increase the casting value of enemy spells, making it less likely for a summon to be cast.

 

And then you can just kill them normally. That Great Bray Shaman has a 6+ armor save, only 5 wounds, and a bravery of 6. His one spell may seem broken, but in the above composition system, he's very expensive due to his extremely fragile nature and lack of abilities beyond that one spell.

 

If your list is unable to counter spells, it does seem like that is your player preference more than an unbalancing feature of the summoning force.

[Guest]

Personally, I wanted to field my 30 horrors in the starting list as 3 units, then not really do summoning. I can't do this with the above comp system because each unit is considered a wizard. Honestly, I think the above comp system is broken with regards to Tzeentch daemons, as it restricts them more than most other factions. The above comp encourages summoning from tzeentch lists, as it makes most other tzeentch daemon lists impracticle due to the restriction of 1-3 on almost every unit (they are wizard heavy).

 

Rather than putting a cap on wizards, a hard cap on spells per turn would be more reasonable. Off hand, a turn limit of 6 failed attempts or 3 successful spells (after dispel attempts) would be pretty reasonable. Yeah, that's still potentially 3 summons per turn, but it means no other spells per turn. Granted, this would only be reasonable if you removed the limit on wizards (the hero cap can stay). So even if I attempted a chain summon, I'd still have a hard cap on spells per turn.

 

So, at maximum, I could summon a unit, which summons a unit, which summons a unit, but that would be all my magic for the turn, no matter how many other wizards I had. Likewise, if I failed to cast 6 times (including dispels as failures), then I would be unable to attempt further casting that turn. Thus, the maximum spell attempts per turn would be 8 (2 successes and 6 failures or 5 failures and 3 successes).

 

Given that the above comp system is capped at 3 wizards, having a hard cap of 3 successful spells per turn seems like a solid trade off. The limit on failures is mainly to prevent excessive time wasting in the hero phase, plus it present a maximum that players would need to be able to attempt to dispel (knowing the max helps players make all-comer's lists, instead of spammy ones).

[Threejacks]

As you play more you will find that Counter spelling is something that rarely happens,even when two casting lists face off.The reason being is that in order to successfully counter the enemy,your wizard or source of countering needs to be within 18" of the caster.As you know,with most casters being very squishy,they are usually held further back and rarely within 18" from enemy casters.

 

I understand your concern with the simple wound comp that we used and that is certainly something that is not at all set in stone.Actually im for trying out one of the player made comps again,like Azyr comp or even doing some SKD point games,1500 is a good target for that one,I would also like to add in a 500 point sideboard as well.I do admit that only being able to have 3 heros in a 100 wound game is a bit on the slim side,actually one of the Stormcasts prime counters to a summoning list is a Hero as with most of the Stormcasts specific counters are.

 

The proposal im making is to plug a glaring hole in the rules that has been widely heralded as an example of how broken and screwed up the AoS game is.Now the only reason im bringing this up now is because you are the first Daemon summoning army ive seen played in the area.Dont get me wrong though its great to have a player using a demon summoning list and im looking forward to more matchups:)..You don't have enough models to be a problem with chain summoning anyway,but since the game is new and we are trying to bring more players into it I would like to have this issue at least be contained in some way before a new player joins in and sees that all they need is a batch of Demon Princes and Pink Horrors to faceroll the game,lol.

 

There are other ways to tone down summoning,some have been using a rule that casters can only have as many units summoned as they can cast spells in a turn.Others play that you can only summon a max of 50% of your armies total wound count.There are others that don't come to mind at the moment,but really I wouldn't like the game to have to go this route as summoning overall doesn't appear that broken to me at this point.

[Malakithe]

Not sure a spell cap would be good. It does mean you need to be more careful and tactical about spells. I'm slowly building up a Seraphon army which can be huge with summoning. The Slann knows 4 spells in addition to being able to summon any unit in the army. I'll be watching the forums and learning since I'm new as well. Once the local area figures out a good company system then we can move forward.

[Guest]

As you play more you will find that Counter spelling is something that rarely happens,even when two casting lists face off.The reason being is that in order to successfully counter the enemy,your wizard or source of countering needs to be within 18" of the caster.As you know,with most casters being very squishy,they are usually held further back and rarely within 18" from enemy casters.

 

I understand your concern with the simple wound comp that we used and that is certainly something that is not at all set in stone.Actually im for trying out one of the player made comps again,like Azyr comp or even doing some SKD point games,1500 is a good target for that one,I would also like to add in a 500 point sideboard as well.I do admit that only being able to have 3 heros in a 100 wound game is a bit on the slim side,actually one of the Stormcasts prime counters to a summoning list is a Hero as with most of the Stormcasts specific counters are.

 

The proposal im making is to plug a glaring hole in the rules that has been widely heralded as an example of how broken and screwed up the AoS game is.Now the only reason im bringing this up now is because you are the first Daemon summoning army ive seen played in the area.Dont get me wrong though its great to have a player using a demon summoning list and im looking forward to more matchups:)..You don't have enough models to be a problem with chain summoning anyway,but since the game is new and we are trying to bring more players into it I would like to have this issue at least be contained in some way before a new player joins in and sees that all they need is a batch of Demon Princes and Pink Horrors to faceroll the game,lol.

 

There are other ways to tone down summoning,some have been using a rule that casters can only have as many units summoned as they can cast spells in a turn.Others play that you can only summon a max of 50% of your armies total wound count.There are others that don't come to mind at the moment,but really I wouldn't like the game to have to go this route as summoning overall doesn't appear that broken to me at this point.

The wound comp is certainly a lacking system. Especially for those units who aren't very impressive, but feature a large number of wounds (like skaven slaves).

 

Regarding princes and pink horrors, I'll note that the princes are not wizards unless they are Tzeentch princes, which matters because the other princes are considerably more impressive in the non-magic areas. The pink horrors are also pretty lacking, when compared to core troops of the other gods.

 

As for countering spells, I think you give it too little credit. In the wound comp system, I can start with 3 actual wizards, then include another 3 models which count as wizards for the purpose of dispelling (that would be the cygor, which can dispel 2 spells per turn), which is a feasible 9 dispel attempts with only starting wizards and monsters. The wizards would likely remain backfield, while the monsters could advance. There are also many monster+wizard models which are quite capable at dispelling while being within 18" of the enemy wizards. I can then further bolster it with many units which either increase unbinding attempts for chaos wizards, or increase casting values for non-chaos wizards.

 

That said, every unit only has a few special abilities. One focusing on summoning, usually can't do other things very well. One that focuses on counter-spelling will also be limited in situations where that isn't needed.

 

In terms of balance, I don't think the Pink Horrors are the threat you make them out to be. They just suck too much in all areas that isn't spell casting.

 

Though on topic with balance, the Herald of Tzeentch (one on foot) is definitely more threatening from a mass summoning standpoint, than the Pink horros, as the Herald summons on a 5 and is a wizard, while the pink horrors require a 6. Both are squishy, but the herald can, once per game, cast on 3d6 (adding all dice). He also get's to cast a bonus spell per turn should his cast ever be 9 or more (which is pretty attainable with 3d6). On paper, these guys are certainly more threatening with mass summoning than any other Tzeentch unit is, just due to the feasibility to summon them in massive numbers.

 

And I've no plan of trying this. Was just mentioning it, since you seem to think those horrors and princes are potent.

Not sure a spell cap would be good. It does mean you need to be more careful and tactical about spells. I'm slowly building up a Seraphon army which can be huge with summoning. The Slann knows 4 spells in addition to being able to summon any unit in the army. I'll be watching the forums and learning since I'm new as well. Once the local area figures out a good company system then we can move forward.

Yeah, it was just an idea. I don't think the wizard cap is a good call either and I especially don't think armies should be torn between including heroes and including wizards.

 

Does that frog wizard have the ability cast 4 spells per turn, or does he just know 4 spells? If he can case 4 spells per turn, but only counts as a single wizard, it's case and point that having a wizard cap is impractical.

 

I think a "successful" spells per turn cap could be very reasonable (3 was an example number), but I don't think capping wizards is very reasonable. All a wizard cap would do is decrease the presence of "weak" wizards, so you'd end up with nothing but the more potent spell casters. Plus capping wizards indirectly makes anti-wizard units less powerful (there are several units which are given bonuses against wizards). Empire witch hunters, for example.

[Malakithe]

Oops it's 3. He knows 3 spells and can cast 3 different spells per hero phase and attempt to dispell 3 per enemy tern. He knowsaid bolt, shield, and a battleshock one...of course all 3 of his casts could all be summons too. He can also proxy cast from a skink priest which is cool

[Threejacks]

"As for countering spells, I think you give it too little credit. In the wound comp system, I can start with 3 actual wizards, then include another 3 models which count as wizards for the purpose of dispelling (that would be the cygor, which can dispel 2 spells per turn), which is a feasible 9 dispel attempts with only starting wizards and monsters. The wizards would likely remain backfield, while the monsters could advance. There are also many monster+wizard models which are quite capable at dispelling while being within 18" of the enemy wizards. I can then further bolster it with many units which either increase unbinding attempts for chaos wizards, or increase casting values for non-chaos wizards."

 

Most armies have minimal casting/countering mostly with just their wizards,so yes with Demons you can build a great casting list along with countering list due to the units you mentioned.

 

Keep in mind that several armies don't have a casting focus and must include Hero units to support their synergy.You will likely see an average of no more than 1 caster in many armies,of course this one caster will usually be sitting back and throwing out shields as,like most casters they are easily killed.

[Threejacks]

Want to switch gears a bit here and report on a game my Son and I had yesterday.

 

We played with the 100 wound comp but allowed 4 hero`s instead of 3.He played Undead and I ran Stormcast I think this matchup makes for a good test on the power levels of summoning.

 

He basically had 3 casters,1 being a Vamplord on Bone dragon the other two were lich priests,his 4th hero was a Lich king for the formation he had.I basically had the Heros of the Realmgate formation which gives me one chance per battleround to bring in a new Stormcast unit from my collection on a 4+.I then supported with some Bretonnians,a Treb,min unit of Archers and a min unit of KotR.

 

The scenario was "Sudden Assault" from the first hardback book.We were hesitant to play this as it doesn't have a turn limit and is basically a kill to win scenario that doesn't use the brb victory conditions,so no sudden death AND no counting summoned units as casualties suffered.The win goes to the first side to kill all of the "starting" models in the others army.This meant we had to note starting units with chips with all of the summoning that would be going on.Also the scenario gave me(the invader) a once per game replacement of a unit lost during the battle and,being Stormcast I had my Time of war once per game reinforcements.

 

I don't want to go into the details of it because I know,my grammar and spelling is friggen horrid,lol but the short of it is we made it to turn 4 after 2 hours and I was being pushed off my Realmgate by hordes of DIre Wolves,Black Knights and the Vamplord with his flying skeleton.He had killed 6 of my 10 starting scrolls and I had take 4 of his 10,but it wasn't looking good for me,though I did launch "Prime Time" last turn into his backfield and took out one Priest in short order then wrecked the Casket of souls.

At the start of turn 4 I had initiative and decided I needed to use all of my resummons abilities.First off I used the "Overthrow the Tyrants" rule from the Time of war rules that are available to all Order and Destruction faction forces in games of AoS.This allows for a once per game reinforcement of Stormcast to be requested from Sigmar(Chaos faction has a similar perk).Basically you roll one die per turn that the game has gone on(including the current turn) and for each result of a 3+ you can bring in one warscroll of Stormcast..I ended up getting all 4 successes.The issue with this is they all need to be placed within 9" of your General and 9" away from enemies.I had about a 8 square inch area I could place these 4 scrolls,lol.I had chose a min scroll of Retributors(3 models) and 3 hero`s.Then rolled on the realmate summoning and got another unit there...then used my once per game scenario regrow abilitie to bring back the KotR.

 

So,it was the start of turn 4 after 2 hours of play and we were about to pretty much start the game over again due to unit regrowth and summoning,lol...needless to say we called it.I think the Undead would have still won the game,I would put my chances at around 30% at that point.

 

I wanted to bring this up as I think it points to something that is often overlooked about the game as a whole,that being a set time limit to complete the scenario.Perhaps this is the first thing that needs to be discussed,because some of the battleplans don't have a turn limit and with a couple of summoning list going at it,the game could go on and on and will no doubt become quite grindy.

 

There are also scenarios that don't have a turn limit but DO use the BRB Victory conditions.These games could be a disaster for summoning lists if the time limit runs out before either side is wiped then the victor is determined by kill count,,,and if the summoner summoned massive units they would likely loose.

 

With Scenarios that do have a set turn limit or random turn limit then its safe to assume that its a draw if the time limit is met before the turns run out.

 

Perhaps a simple setting of a game time limit is the best "First House Rule" to make instead of going after perceived oversights in the rules themselves.

 

With a time limit set and the Victory conditions known,players will have to judge what warscrolls and how many to use from their comp pool to achieve a victory.

[Guest]

Most armies have minimal casting/countering mostly with just their wizards,so yes with Demons you can build a great casting list along with countering list due to the units you mentioned.

 

Keep in mind that several armies don't have a casting focus and must include Hero units to support their synergy.You will likely see an average of no more than 1 caster in many armies,of course this one caster will usually be sitting back and throwing out shields as,like most casters they are easily killed.

Here, a list of the faction models with some degree of countering ability (free PDF armies only):

 

Order Faction

 

Wizards

The Fay Entrantress

Damsel of the Lady

Teclis

Eltharion on Stormwing

High Elf Archmage on Dragon

High Elf Mage

Dragon Mage

Alarielle the Radiant

Loremaster of Hoeth

Balthar Gelt

Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Wizard

Empire Battle Wizard

Amber Battle Wizard on Imperial Griffon

Luminark of Hysh

Spellweaver (auto dispell once per game...)

Shadowdancer

Sisters of the Thorn

Branchwraith

Treeman Ancient

Malekith

Dark Elf Sorceress

Sorceress on Black Dragon

Sorceress on Cold One

Doomfire Warlocks

Morathi

Slaan Starmaster

Lord Kroak

Skink Starseer

Skink Starpriest

 

Non-wizards that Counter as Wizards

King Louen Leoncoeur

Men-at-Arms

Peasant Bowmen

Thorek Ironbrow

Kraggi

Runelord

Anointed of Asuryan

Volkmar the Grim

The War Altar of Sigmar

Luther Huss

Warrior Priest

Hellebron

Cauldron of Blood Attended by Hellebron

 

Models which buff unbinding or debuff enemy casting

Thane with Battle Standard

Luminark of Hysh

 

Models which can ignore spells which target them

Ironbreakers

Irondrakes

Dwarf Warriors

Miners

Quarrelers

Thunderers

 

Models with special bonuses against Wizards

Witch Hunter

 

 

Destruction Faction

 

Wizards

 

Butcher

Firebelly

Azhag the Slaughter

Orc Great Shaman

Wurrzag

Savage Orc Shaman

Goblin Shaman

Night Goblin Shaman

Anarchnarok Spider Carrying Forest Goblins and Forest Goblin Shaman

 

(this faction doesn't have any non-wizard countering abilities)

 

 

Death Faction

 

Wizards

Liche Priest (auto dispell once per game)

Nagash (ridiculous casting and dispelling abilities)

Arkan the Black

Mannfred

Neferatta

Vlad Von Carstein

Count Mannfred

Konrad Von Carstein

Isabella Von Carstein

Vampire Lord

Vampire Lord on Abyssal Terror

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon

Coven Throne

Heinrich Kemmler

Necromancer

Strigoi Ghoul King

Strigoi Ghoul King on Terrorgheist

 

Non-wizards that Counter as Wizards

Casket of Souls

Black Coach

 

Models which buff unbinding or debuff enemy casting

Corpse Cart

Mortis Engine

 

Chaos Faction

 

Wizards

Malagor

Great Bray Shaman

Great Unclean One

Kairos Fateweaver

Lord of Change

The Changling

Herald of Tzeentch

Herald of Tzeentch on Disc of Tzeentch

Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot

The Blue Scribes

Pink Horrors

Keeper of Secrets

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch

Drazhoath the Ashen (FW)

Daemonsmith (FW)

Thanquol and Boneripper

Skaven Grey Seer

Screaming Bell

Lord Skreech Verminking

Verminlord Warbringer

Verminlord Corruptor

Verminlord Deciever

Verminlord Warpseer

Ikit Claw

Warlock Engineer

Sayl the Faithless (FW)

Archaeon

Be'lakor

Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore

The Glottkin

Bloab Rotspawn

Festus the Leechlord

Nurgle Chaos Sorcerer

Galrauch

Vilitch the Cursling

Tzeentch Sorcerer Lord

Lammasu

 

Non-wizards that Counter as Wizards

Cygor

Ghorros Warhoof

Karanak

Flesh Hounds

Chaos Lord of Tzeentch on Manticore

Scyla Anfingrimm

Mighty Lord of Khorne

 

Models which buff unbinding or debuff enemy casting

Khazrak One Eye

Screaming Bell

Lord Skreech Verminking

Hellpit Abomination

Plague Priest

Bloab Rotspawn

Chaos Familiars

Blood Secrator

 

Models with special bonuses against Wizards

Cygor

Tamurkhan The Maggot Lord

 

Scenery "Faction"

 

Scenery which buffs Unbinding or debuffs enemy casting

Balewind Vortex

Dreadstone Blight

Garden of Morr

Magewrath Throne

Temple of Skulls

Witchfate Tor

Skullvane Manse

Overlord Bastion

Arcane (Random scenery table)

 

EDIT: includes free Pdfs from GW and FW warscrolls, plus starter box Warscrolls.

[Threejacks]

Nice list,thnx for posting that:)

 

Theres also at least 4 heros in the Saraphon that can counter and or cast and im sure the Dark Elves have several.

 

Setting up to counter is certainly a viable tactic however,once again..the main issue that many have problems with is the ability of a caster to summon another caster then it summons another caster and so on.Sure the first one could be countered but that of course would use up a counter, however if it does go off and another caster gets summoned,then a viscious cycle could ensue that possibly couldn't be overcome.Remember that each counter attempt can be done only once regardless of how many wizards could counter the spell in question.Not to mention the ability to place the new summoned caster out of range of countering units.

 

At this point before we go forward with a house rule on this,I would much like to get more test games in against your list.Ill bring a sideboard with more countering abilities and such and we can do some random battleplans.I fully realize that Demons were designed with a heavy summoning emphasis and it could just be that players should be using sideboards to deal with this, as GamerGeek had mentioned previously.I personally would like to think its a non issue but having followed Dakka and other forums since the game has come out,it apparently is a huge issue and I can kinda see why, I just haven't experienced it first hand enough.

[Guest]

Forgot the dark elves....EDIT:fixed! Saraphon aren't a free PDF army. I'll add them when I get a peak at the rules.

 

Looking at the above, I think having a cap on Successful spells per turn is the answer. I suppose, you could cap Successful Summons per turn, instead, though if doing that, I would strongly push to cap non-magic summons with the same limit.

 

A wizard cap limits armies like Tzeentch with excessive Wizard access, while it also greatly hinders the Destruction faction, which lacks any really unbinding ability outside of hero slots. Plus it makes certain characters, like Nagash, much more reasonable in normal play (that thing can attempt like 8 spells per turn).

 

I also don't really think a hero cap is very practical in a comp system that also limits the total warscrolls. Some factions need heroes more than other factions. The Destruction faction in particular, takes a major hit if capped on heroes, as it indirectly caps wizards. It's a pretty big deal for those goblin wizards, as those were meant to be fielded 2 for 1 in a few editions ago. A minimum model count would work much better than a hero cap, assuming there remains a warscroll limit.

[Guest]

Ah, okay, rather than a cap on spells per turn, what about a cap on wounds during the game? Like the maximum number of wounds worth of models allowed on the table at a given time.

[Guest]

Wow, so another thing of note regarding the anti-magic stuff, is that that Overlord and Skull Towers double the banner ranges for any Totem unit garrisoned within. In other words, A thane with a battle standard planted on that skull tower has a 32" radius of -2 to enemy casting rolls. That Khorne Bloodsecrator from the starter box would cause players to re-roll successful casting attempts within a 36" radius...

 

Seems like a pretty easy to way to really make it tough to have a feasible summoning army. For perspective, that Thane one would make Pink Horrors summon on 8s instead of 6s, Daemon Princes on 10s instead of 8s, and Soulgrinders on 12s instead of 10s. And I was having a real tough time casting the summon daemon prince spell with a +2 to my casting roll in the last game.

[Threejacks]

Yeah,chaos Ironically have some great magic AND antimagic options.Thus why I now have an Archaon and will likely be running the Khorne formation that's listed in his book along with some Dreadhold pieces:).

 

However for the time being Im into running my Order guys,mainly Stormcast but will be mixing in Bretonnains and hopefully in the near future getting some Lizards on the table.AoS is such a great game for faction hopping.

[Guest]

Yeah,chaos Ironically have some great magic AND antimagic options.Thus why I now have an Archaon and will likely be running the Khorne formation that's listed in his book along with some Dreadhold pieces:).

 

However for the time being Im into running my Order guys,mainly Stormcast but will be mixing in Bretonnains and hopefully in the near future getting some Lizards on the table.AoS is such a great game for faction hopping.

Faction hopping is expensive....but yeah, AoS is great for faction hopping.

 

The funny one is that Khorne daemons have no wizards, yet are summoned to the battlefield.

 

Anyway, if taking Bretonians, I'd look into those Men-at-arms or Peasant Bowmen. Both units can take a "relic bearer" which allows their non-wizard, non-hero unit to unbind spells like a wizard. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. It's not even one per army, so you can take a bunch of those units with relic bearers.

[Malakithe]

What do you mean Seraphon aren't free? I have the AoS app and all the units are free on there, just not the battalions

[Guest]

What do you mean Seraphon aren't free? I have the AoS app and all the units are free on there, just not the battalions

As a windows user, I lack access to the AoS apps. I can only get the PDFs on the GW website. I really wish GW would add windows support, but they haven't for some time, so I don't expect it.

 

EDIT: looks like they have free pdfs linked to each unit, just not the download sections. I'll update it.

[Malakithe]

Ahh I have the app on my phone...plus I got the new Seraphon battletome anyway cuz it's awesome

[Guest]

Not sure if I added all them, but added all that were in the PDFs I could find on the GW site for the Seraphon. I was rather surprised that lizards are now Daemons....

 

Anyway, didn't find any models that really aided in unbinding, or had bonuses against wizards, just some awesome wizards that can cast a bunch.

[Malakithe]

Yep weird space lizard demons with pure light/energy for blood that just teleport onto the battlefield(lore wise) then vanish after they win...apparently they are good friends with the stormcasts

[Guest]

From a game mechanic standpoint, I think having the daemon keyword being not longer unique to a certain faction is a very smart call.

 

That said, it does remind me of the Deathless from 3.5's book of Exalted Deeds (Deathless were the "good" undead).

[Threejacks]

Faction hopping is expensive....but yeah, AoS is great for faction hopping.

 

The funny one is that Khorne daemons have no wizards, yet are summoned to the battlefield.

 

Anyway, if taking Bretonians, I'd look into those Men-at-arms or Peasant Bowmen. Both units can take a "relic bearer" which allows their non-wizard, non-hero unit to unbind spells like a wizard. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. It's not even one per army, so you can take a bunch of those units with relic bearers.

Yeah,thats why my main allies to my Stomcast are Bretonnians.Ive attempted dispel a few times in the past but for the most part I get a lot more mileage out of the Bowmen and Trebuchet than anything else.Though with demons hitting the field now...

[Malakithe]

Don't worry. Soon your stormcast will have the allies they deserve in the light infused space lizard demons!

[Guest]

Yeah,thats why my main allies to my Stomcast are Bretonnians.Ive attempted dispel a few times in the past but for the most part I get a lot more mileage out of the Bowmen and Trebuchet than anything else.Though with demons hitting the field now...

Daemons being Seraphon and chaos....

 

Bowmen and Trebuchet look like both great units.

 

Ah, here's one I've been wondering. Okay, Luminark of Hysh gives +1 unbinding to ORDER WIZARDS (10" radius). Peasant Bowmen are not WIZARDS, but they are ORDER models which allowed to attempt to unbind spells as if they were WIZARDS. Can they gain the +1 to unbinding from the luminark?