Norrad Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 So I've been trying the Warscroll Builder ap that's free online. I've only been utilizing the pool portion and not the SDK. The results have been similar to the Lords of War army company I posted a while ago with the character, monster, Warmachines caps and army and scroll wound caps. I've been trying to build fluff builds and not pushing the limits. At 20 pool points I was averaging 8-10 scrolls with a little over 100 wounds. Any one else tried this army ap builder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 What's a pool point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Didn't know there was an app. I've been using scrollbuilder.com. what's sdk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Its listed in the top sticky post "AoS Compostition links" Heres the specific link-http://www.scrollbuilder.com/ Steel Angel and I have used the pool section a few times but switched to the points instead as it allows for a more specific list with differing points,in some cases for weapon loadouts.Though the campaign system my son and I are testing uses the pool section as allowances for army selection and reinforcement tables. Ive heard that the sdk system is one of the main systems being used by TO`s for events.Havent seen any event rules to prove that yet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norrad Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yah, the pool point system is more restrictive. You definitely are limited to taking scroll minimums or multiples of just the min number of models instead of allowing for single model additions to units. Some of the weapon or unit upgrades are also not there but for a down and dirty quick army builder it works great. It's allowed me to grab a few models and see if it's in the ballpark of army size I was looking for. Sorry for the 'app' comment. Poor choice of words. It's the .com link that I was talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Its listed in the top sticky post "AoS Compostition links" Heres the specific link-http://www.scrollbuilder.com/. Where does it say how a pool point is determined? I'm legitimately curious here. I can't find it on that page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I've been using scrollbuilder but only the SDK part even though I have no idea what that means lol the pool part isn't up to date at all. Under 'lizardmen' it doesn't list all the options, uses all the old wording. The SDK option is completely up to date and super easy. I don't use the points part but instead just count total wounds and warscrolls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Where does it say how a pool point is determined? I'm legitimately curious here. I can't find it on that page. Not sure on that,you would probably have to contact the guy who coded it,the Warscroll builder icon at the top of the page links to his site for it. My guess is its something along the lines of what Sylvos did to build our own Ordo comp system which is listed in the comp links as well.I actually really like our own custom comp system but its a bit more involved to make up lists with,,pretty easy after a few tries though:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Started comparing points. It's all screwy. Lord of Change: 281pts Kairos Fateweaver: 279pts (yeah, cheaper than a lord of change) Herald of Tzeentch: 90pts The Changeling: 81pts The Blue Scribes: 87pts (again, special character versions are cheaper than the generic) Oh, and here's a funny one: Pink Horrors: 190pts (10 wounds) 2 Heralds of Tzeentch: 180pts (10 wounds) List of non-hero chaos monsters: Lammasu 115pts Great Taurus 124pts Cockatrice 136pts Jabberscylthe 169pts Cygor 170pts Ghorgon 207pts Chaos Siege Giant 234pts Chimera 242pts Slaughterbrute 260pts Mutalith Vortex Beast 291pts Soul Grinder 293pts (without upgrades) Hellpit Abomination 312pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Also note that in some cases their base listing for a warscroll does not show a full minimum scroll,I believe this is to allow for a champion or other single model that may have a different weapon option.Those are usually listed as the same warscroll title but with a choice of a special weapon,,most of the time being just one model. Ive seen some rather goofy point totals as well,but for the most part they are not too far off comparables.Its certainly not perfect and has plenty of room for adjustment down the road,but as it stands now its probably the most widely used system with its ease of access and all:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 One of the main issues I've seen with the point system is units that don't really get any better with more models, maintain the same price per model. In example, Chaos Familiars are 4pts per model. The only reason to take the unit is for their +1 casting and unbinding for CHAOS WIZARDS within 6". With their bravery of 4, a larger unit is mostly a liability. I think the initial model should be more than 4pts, with additional models possibly being less than 4pts. Ive seen some rather goofy point totals as well,but for the most part they are not too far off comparables.Its certainly not perfect and has plenty of room for adjustment down the road,but as it stands now its probably the most widely used system with its ease of access and all:) Main issue I see here is that without further comp, the point system isn't balanced. Example as above. A Pink Horror unit has 10 models, 10 wounds, is a wizard, and costs 190pts. They require a 6 to summon a new unit. Heralds of Tzeentch are 5 wounds, 1 model, is a much more impressive wizard, and costs 90pts. They require a 5 to summon a new unit. Taking two at 90pts each makes it cheaper for 2 better wizards than it is for 1 unit of weaker wizards. They are easier to summon too. Without a Hero cap, I'm very inclined to take "blocks" of heralds and not bring any pink horrors. Now, granted, there are two areas that pink horrors could be argued to be better: They have more models, which matters in areas where the model count matters. And they also can be summoned in a much larger unit with an 11 rolled (20-man). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 The site is still the best option to keep things organized and count wounds/scrolls. In not sure who and how they came up with points and ya most of the block units are only 5 to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Doing a bit of basic mathhammer comparing Pink Horrors with The Herald I came up with the following- Versus a target with a 5+ save the Pink horrors shooting does an average of 1.67 DPT(Damage per turn) while the Herald only doe an average of .33dpt.Doubling that for 2 Heralds yields .66 dpt In melee vs 5+ save the Pink Horrors do 1.21 dpt while the Herald does .58 dpt using his staff.Doubling again for the Herald and its closer but still under at 1.16..pretty much equal though. The Pink Horrors ability to shoot an arcane bolt adds in .9dpt average over 6 turns of gameplay while the Herald,with its Pink Fire spell only does an average of .75 dpt,even though its twice the damage,its much harder to cast than a arcane bolt and thus the lower figure.OF course in this case we would be using 2 Heralds and thus between the two of them they would do 1.5 dpt over 6 turns. Now of course a Herald can do some special things like boost casting for one turn and possibly end up being able to throw another spell now and then but overall It seems to me that they are scored about right. Just realized I forgot to double up the Heralds results so I added for that.Even still it shows a fairly even matchup.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Doing a bit of basic mathhammer comparing Pink Horrors with The Herald I came up with the following- Versus a target with a 5+ save the Pink horrors shooting does an average of 1.67 DPT(Damage per turn) while the Herald only doe an average of .33dpt.Doubling that for 2 Heralds yields .66 dpt In melee vs 5+ save the Pink Horrors do 1.21 dpt while the Herald does .58 dpt using his staff.Doubling again for the Herald and its closer but still under at 1.16..pretty much equal though. The Pink Horrors ability to shoot an arcane bolt adds in .9dpt average over 6 turns of gameplay while the Herald,with its Pink Fire spell only does an average of .75 dpt,even though its twice the damage,its much harder to cast than a arcane bolt and thus the lower figure.OF course in this case we would be using 2 Heralds and thus between the two of them they would do 1.5 dpt over 6 turns. Now of course a Herald can do some special things like boost casting for one turn and possibly end up being able to throw another spell now and then but overall It seems to me that they are scored about right. Just realized I forgot to double up the Heralds results so I added for that.Even still it shows a fairly even matchup.:) The Heralds can also cast arcane bolt. They don't have to use pink fire. Also, those two abilities stack, so once per game I roll 3d6 to cast, adding them all together, and then, if the total cast is 9 or more, I can attempt a second spell. So, turn 1, the herald tries pink fire with 3d6 (with 10-11 being most common results). I only need a 9, and with that 9, I can attempt Arcane bolt (this time with 2d6). I still can't attempt to cast the same spell twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 What's a pool point? I finally found the pool point info, though they don't define how pool points are determined: Complete Pool Point list: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88222296/1%20AoS%20Comp/Independent%20AoS%20Pool%20Document%20v1.3.pdf Rules for use with pool points: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/88222296/1%20AoS%20Comp/Clash%20Comp%20v1.3.pdf They also have a forum entry that is suppose to explain it better: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=130170 It is notable that the forum contains "rules understandings" which don't seem to be covered by either PDF. For example, there is apparently a ban on summoning, but that doesn't seem to be directly addressed by the comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_DUB Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I like the SDK system. The new Adepticon Rules came out for 2016 and is using the SDK system (1800 pts). Listen to a CanHammer podcast in which Alex was talking about why they are using the SDK rules and how he sees AOS as a working system. Have to say I am sold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I like it overall. Very easy to use. Their restrictions seem pretty balanced too. No formations is meh thou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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