McNathanson

Hey don't out Sonnia... doesn't matter how talented she is, if people catch wind of what she's up to, she's gonna lose her fan base!

Yeah it's quite an impressive crew and I'm envious that Guild doesn't have something as disgustingly good at S&S.  I'm going to have a tough time anticipating all the stuff you can do on your turn with that crew.  Still, at least so far, it feels like there's more play/counterplay than with Lilith, which I found fun.  Who knows maybe that was just because you had a crappy game with cards and stuff :)  Awesome crew anyway, me want!!

We've found stairs (like these) to be quite clumsy rules-wise.  How do you guys play them?

1. Do they block LoS or can you see through them (when standing on the ground)?
2. What height are they at which stair tread?
3. Where exactly can a model enter the stair without climbing?  With climbing?
4. How do they interact with pushes (assuming you can go up and down them without "climbing" per-se)?
5. Anything else you can think of that I'm forgetting :)

Thanks folks!!

More related questions for Mark5 (and other TOs):

1. How long are your typical tournament rounds? 
2. Do you declare Strats and Schemes for each round ahead of time or randomize at the start of the round?
3. How do you prevent slow-playing from wrecking slow-to-develop crews and/or Schemes?

Inquiring minds want to know!!

Love,
NtK

Thanks!

Jay you aren't in Portland are you?  Just wondering if there are any serious mollyfox players from the area on Ordo?

Right, wasn't paying much attn to the deets of it being Nino, just used him cuz his name is the shortest to type :)

Thanks guys!!

Back with another thought: I was reading the "Diestro" upgrade card and had an idea.  Here's the text

Geometric: Models engaged by this model suffer
- to all Df Duels against Sh Attack Actions.
Circular: Models do not flip a card for this model
when determining a random target while shooting
into an engagement.

My thought is that I can give Diestro to my model (say Francisco), then I can use him for LoS tricks, by engaging an enemy model (say Lilith, who is the reason I spend so much time thinking about ways around LoS).  Lilith herself may be out of LoS of my shooter (say Nino).  But Nino can target Francisco (nothing on the Diestro card says otherwise), but then we determine the target randomly and since I don't flip for Francisco, it's going to be Lilith.  

Seems like a pretty nice trick.  Any reason it won't work?

Also, even if Lilith has cover, the Diestro ability will negate the minus-flip on the attack.  Even better!

Yeah okay I thought maybe they were wrong.  However the El Mayor ability doesn't require LoS so maybe that was the confusion.

BTW yes Watcher can grant LoS but that wasn't the description.

Hey guys, was listening to a podcast where they implied Francisco Ortega's Enfrentate a Mi doesn't require LoS.

I thought that ALL Actions require LoS (and in range) unless otherwise specified.  However perhaps the exact wording of his ability means he can choose any target within 7"?  Here's the text; what do you guys think, am I wrong, and he *can* pick his target without LoS?
 

Target an enemy model within 7".  Place this model into base contact with the target.  Push all other friendly models engaged with the target up to 5" directly away from the target.

Fair point, there aren't too many situations where seeing over Ht3 terrain and still being in range is going to be plausible, especially if we don't put the Tower right next to a Ht3 walkway (who the heck would do that, anyway?!?) ;)

Blacklining and straight white highlights are what sell a sharp blade. A lot of time the actual modeled blade isn't all that blade-shaped so it helps to paint in a sharper point than is actually there. A little piece of painters tape is especially helpful for getting that perfect white line down the center. 

That's great; I'll give it a try! Thanks!

Yeah I'm sure you're correct, I just don't want it to play that way... now we have to get a laser or stoop down and sight along the line... all kinda silly.  Boo.

For the second, the LoS lines would pass through the building (over its base, at a point within its Ht) and so LoS is Blocked. It doesn't matter that the far side of the target's base is outside of 3" from the building, it matters that the line drawn from the attacker's base to the far side of the target's base passes through the blocking terrain. (see the example of raspy attacking the young nephilim in the rulebook).

I understand your reading and I initially thought the same thing.  However I don't understand the "at a point" part... does this mean a point on the target's base, or a point in space above the base of the blocking terrain?  If the latter, it's the first instance I know of in Malifaux using TLoS (e.g. you'd need a laser to determine in the LoS line passes over the ht3 blocking terrain at a point 3" or less above the base of the terrain).  If the former, then it fits better with the rest of the rules where models and terrain cast "shadows" of radius equal to their ht.  So I'm tending to interpret at the latter, in which case, a LoS line to a point on the target's base more than 3" from the Ht3 blocking terrain would allow targeting.

Make sense?  Thoughts?  I realize "at a point" should be instead "to a point" in the latter case... so I'm probably forcing it :)

So I finally sat down and read through the LoS rules carefully :)

One funny thing occurred to me: technically, if a model is within its height (say, 2" for a ht 2 model) of the edge of a vantage point (any terrain of ht 2+ that can be stood upon, such as the walkways we use), then that vantage point terrain is ignored for drawing LoS.  From a strict interpretation, I believe this means that a model can draw LoS to a target model directly underneath itself (e.g. if it's standing on a 3" wide walkway).  I suppose we just assume it leans over the edge or something?  Or is there a rule/FAQ I'm missing?

Also one point of clarification: the rules state that LoS line from a Vantage Point is blocked if it passes over blocking terrain and ends within [blocking terrain's ht] of the blocking terrain.  I believe that this means that (for example):

1. Model A (ht2) is standing on a 4" high Vantage Point, and is within 2" of the edge of the Vantage Point it is standing on.
2. Target Model B (30mm) is behind a 3" high building, and is 2 1/2" away from it.  Model A can draw LoS to the far side of Model B's base, which is more than 3" from the blocking building, and so can see it.  However Model A also draws a LoS line through the building to the near side of Model B's base, which is within 3".  Therefore Model B would have cover vs. Projectile attacks.  

Is this correct?

Yes, clearly the Triggered push happens before damage, the question was just around whether the markers are placed before the push, after the push, or player's choice.  Not super confusing (not ambiguous like GW rules) but wanted to make sure I was "doing it right" because I'm too lazy to read the entire book :)

That's great!  I'm loving learning this game.  It's very deep and the balance between combat and VPs is lovely.  Thanks again for introducing Joel who in turn has gotten me and Micah infected ;)

Right, that was my read: they are happening in the same step but since the push is a Trigger it goes first.  Cool.

Great info thanks my man!

I'm curious how you'd combine the three for best overall?

Also sounds like there's no "comp" meaning we just assume that the game is well-balanced enough not to need handicapping system, correct?

Right on the option to activate the trigger, thanks for the reminder... but are you saying then that it's "simultaneous" and therefore as the controlling player, I get to decide which order?

I find myself using Witchling Stalkers as a target for Sonnia's Ca attack, so that I can cheat down their Defensive flip, and win by enough to cheat up the Damage to Mod or Severe to get the Blast on enemy models!

However I'm not sure how the Stalker's Drawn to Pain rule interacts with placing Blast markers.

I *think* that the Blast marker is part of Sonnia's Ability, and the Stalker's push is a Trigger, the push would go first.  Is that right?

Here's the Drawn to Pain rules text:

 

"Df (M) Drawn to Pain: After failing an opposed Df duel but before suffering damage, push this model 4” towards the Attacker."

and here's the relevant rulebook entry on Blast marker timing, which says you place the markers before dealing damage (even to the original target):

"If a blast is part of a damage flip (which is usually the case)
place one Blast Marker for each blast symbol (b) in the
Damage Severity flipped. The blast deals diminished
damage to models who aren't the original target. The
damage dealt by a blast from a damage flip is one step lower
than the damage flipped for the initial blast. An Attack with
a 2/3b/4b that deals Moderate damage, for instance, would
place one Blast Marker (due to the one b on the Moderate
damage), and deal 3 damage to the original target, and 2
damage to each other model within the blast.
It is important to note that the original target does not
take damage twice from the Attack. The Blast is placed,
and then all models suffer damage as noted above.
Remember, the Red Joker's damage is stepped down to
Moderate (not Severe) damage."

 

The example makes it extra clear that the original target suffers damage after placing the Blast markers:

(and as usual, it's actually using one of the models in our own example, hah!)

"Lilith is struck by an Attack with a damage code of
2/3b/4b. The damage flip resulted in Severe damage,
so the Attacker places a 50mm Blast Marker. The Blast
Marker overlaps the base of the Young Nephilim. Lilith
suffers Severe damage (4) and the Young Nephilim
suffers Moderate damage (3)."

 

Finally here's the text on Actions/Triggers and timing:

 

"General Timing

Most Abilities grant a passive effect, some of
which have their effect when a model suffers
damage or is killed. Whenever any Ability
happens at the same time as any Triggers,
the Triggers are resolved first. If two Abilities
happen at the same time, resolve them in the
following order:
1. The Acting Model resolves its Abilities.
2. The Defending Model (if there is one)
resolves its Abilities.
3. Any other models controlled by the
First Player resolves all of their Ability effects
in any order the First Player chooses.
4. Any other models controlled by the
Second Player resolves all of their Ability
effects in any order the Second Player
chooses."

 

Am I correct?

Thanks!
Nathan

Is there a "standard" way to score tournaments?  Does it include soft scores (paint, sports, comp)?  

If not, how do you run your tournaments?

Romes I just can't resist noting how you consistently articulate my precise gaming philosophy and the reasoning behind it as well.  As someone who used to organize events and spent a LOT of time trying to get the incentives (scoring, prizes, etc.) "just right" in order to cultivate the gaming atmosphere I so deeply enjoy, it's really great to read your posts.  Thanks for fighting the good fight, I know it often feels like a never ending uphill battle!  I also know that when things go right, it's totally worth it :)

That's the thing: faces (human female ones especially) often don't have edges or much definition at all to highlight, shade, or pick out.  And I think the usual "over-do the contrast" approach to painting, which works so well with most colors, falls down on skin tone, which just looks wrong up close when done with too much contrast.

So I agree: human faces and skin in general are really tough compared to most other things.

One person who mastered them is that awesome chick who used to do pro work... can't recall her name, A-something?  Anyway, she was really really good at painting faces.  Neat story huh? :)

Wings, man, bring those wings you make... holy nomnom.