AbusePuppy

Yeah, KT is the one place that Armored Sentinels are actually usable.

I see them more as a replacement for shooting a bolt Pistol before Charging or something.

For the one guy that can toss 'em, yeah. Though honestly a lot of the time I'd rather not shoot before charging because the risk of killing yourself out of range/forcing a morale check is often too high.

 

It looks like Babby's First Tonka Truck.

I guess the biggest problem we were facing was too many usable, reasonable models in the game. So f*ck it, AV14 flyer with a Str D shot.

The Wraithknight isn't even that good, guys. It ties up a lot of your points into a single model and leaves you at a disadvantage for trying to score the missions, so it all works out to be fine.

[/sarcasm]

Krak Grenades are nice when going after vehicles or high-Toughness targets, but honestly a lot of the time a Bolter is as good or better. They're definitely something to keep in mind, but they're hardly the end-all be-all.

One thing to take note of, since it's a bit unclear from the way you have the list formatted- an entire unit of Wraithblades must have the same weapons. You can't mix-and-match with members of the squad.

I said DA are awful because anything they can do, another army can do better.

This is patently untrue. BS4 overwatch is very different in character from the rerolls/HnR that SM have. Additionally, most DA lists feature one or more of the auxiliary formations as a significant contributor to the army, whereas SM typically just fit in a minimum 10th Company and call it a day.

 

My assertion was more about if you go all DA infantry, another army does that better. If you go all Ravenwing Bikes, White Scars do it better.

Again, not true at all. The Ravenwing rule means that DA's bikes are vastly more survivable than their SM counterparts, and Scout as a universal means they are not locked into a particular HQ choice. Moreover, SM have no equivalent to Black Knights, which are not only an effective shooting unit but also fairly strong in melee and come with a potentially-powerful debuff. They are in a wholly different class from something like a Command Squad on bikes and the ability to form an entire portion of an army out of them (or out of stuff like Attack Bikes, etc) is a very big deal.

 

you can incorporate these Astra Militarum vehicles as allies of convenience

So are you supposed to be able to take them in a GSC detachment but the count as AoC to the rest of the army? Are they supposed to be available in their own detachment? Are you supposed to take an IG detachment and those vehicles are AoC but everything else is CtA like normal? I'm confused.

YAYAYAYAY!  If I can unlazify (is that a word?) my self I might even be able to patch together some GSC for this. :)

If it's like last time, the "minor" factions won't be allowed. Unless he's completely changing the setup and limitations of the tournament.

Niche? Entire list is things found in codex: SM. And I agree, if going FW, I can fill all of the lacking areas

You are right that they are things that DA is lacking- in the sense that they do not have access to them through their own book- but that doesn't mean they aren't niche. For example, continuing with the flying transports example, flying transports are not a core part of the game; they are not a core strategy for any army, and they are not a major factor on the tournament scene. DA lacks access to them, but that lack isn't important because it does not impede their ability to write an effective list in any realistic way.

FW models are pretty commonplace in the tournament scene now, so I think not "counting" them is something of a fallacy.

 

Regarding ranged weapons, the thunderfire has 60", the conversion beamer (another one DA don't have), and a few others. I don't expect them to be common for SM, but having one or two useful (HKs are not useful) extreme range options is tactically sound, so as to prevent the opponent from outranging us.

48", the vast majority of the time, might as well be across the board. While it does occasionally happen that it isn't long enough, those are typically situations you can see coming in advance and plan for. And, as I said, the TFC is the only commonly-seen gun with a range over 48" in SM- and even then, it is taken more because of Barrage and Ignores cover than anything.

 

Eternal Warrior is not what it was, but we do have two IC options which would benefit from EW, the Interrogator chaplain and the company master. Maybe not every list, but it would be nice to have. EW has become less common for marine forces, though, so it is somewhat understable.

The question is, if you could buy EW for those models, would you? If you had access to the Shield Eternal, would you put it on an Interrogator-Chaplain? I sure wouldn't. I don't want to spend 50pts to buff up a character who isn't really that impressive of a melee fighter to begin with. Ditto for the Company Master- Captains haven't been good for a long time now and they still aren't. The only reason you take him is because the Battle Company rules force you to, and spending points on him (as opposed to on your regular squads) is generally not effective.

There are definitely things that DA is lacking compared to SM; thier BS2/4 Overwatch in place of Hit and Run (and rerolling Run) on their basic models can be a significant issue, although that's not strictly worse. They lack Devastator Centurions, though I don't think that's as big an issue as people make it out to be. The Nephelim, though a fairly acceptable airplane, is much more expensive than the Stormtalon and doesn't feature in nearly as good of formations. None of the DA relics come anywhere near being as good as the Hunter's Eye or many of the other SM options. Even beyond mere Battle Companies, SM have options such as Lias Issodon, the Talon Strike Force, etc, etc, which can be quite competitive. DA is essentially a sidegrade compared to SM- they gain some things and lack others, but more often than not they aren't the things that people think they are.

Most of the things you list as "missing" are either really niche stuff (who cares that they can't get EW for their generic HQs? no one wants to buy EW for a Librarian anyways) or stuff that doesn't have any relevance to tournaments in the first place (the Stormraven is the only flying transport SM get, and it hasn't been a competititor since very early 7E.)

Also, with regards to barrage weapons, I believe DA get the Quad Mortar from FW, which is actually better than the Thunderfire against most targets.

Sadly, the lack of effective Skyfire is universal to most codices; only Tau, Skitarii, and Eldar really get effective Skyfire options.

Isn't delivery more of a problem for GS though? Like, they could kill stuff before, but could never get there?

They were bad at both delivery and at killing; Rending is no longer king of the world when it comes to special rules, and with two attacks base it really wasn't that hard to see a unit of Genestealers get their teeth kicked in by basic infantry, not to even mention actual combat units.

Yeah, it's a case of the people writing rules not talking to the intern making the FAQs.

From another forum. Does a Quad gun, armored container, or other toughness model bought as a fortification count as a model on the table for the purposes of sudden death victory (commonly called a "wipe")?

I would say no, since those things are all pieces of terrain and not models in your army- they do not count as victory points for being destroyed during missions and cannot award First Blood, etc, so it would stand to reason that they also cannot prevent you from being tabled.

Buildings that you control (such as a Bunker, Bastion, etc) are different- the rulebook explicitly says to treat them as vehicles, so they will naturally stop you from losing in that way.

 

There is an intersting thought regarding how close you can move the opponent's battlefield debris, if it qualifies as a model in their army.

That would be another argument against the "they count as models" side- it would otherwise be impossible for the enemy to ever take control of "your" Quad Gun, which from the GW FAQ we know is a thing that must be possible to happen.

Hello, Pacificaners- we here in Corvallis will be hosting our second 40K tournament in the Razor Valley series on Sunday, November 6th; like the first one, it will be a 1,500pt event designed to raise money for the OHSU Casey Eye Clinic. Also like the previous iteration of the tournament, we will be restricting armies to one detachment and prohibiting all superheavies and formations (though special detachments are allowed, as are Knights as long as you play them "pure.") We will be using the ITC and GW FAQs (including the "draft" FAQ, minus the rulings on ruin walls and Drop Pod doors.)

The goal of our event is to have a good time for players of all types- competitive, casual, hobbyist, or any other, and we welcome players of all skill and experience levels. We have several different awards for different aspects of the hobby as well as prize support generously donated to us by local stores and online retailers, some of which will go out to every player with their entry package and some of which will be raffled off to the participants.

Entry fee is $20; we ask that all players have a painted army, three copies of your army list, and a short (100+ words) section on the lore of your particular force. We will not turn away players for failing to meet these standards, though you may be ineligible for some awards or prizes. You can preregister at our website (http://razorvalley.wixsite.com/home) or by contacting us directly via the website or by PM here on Ordo- PayPal and credit/debit cards are both acceptable. We also have a Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/events/191329334625386/) for those looking for a more active response.

There will also be running a concurrent Guild Ball event for those interested; details and contact info are available on the website.

Many thanks to everyone who came out to the tournament- we got a pretty good turnout for our first event, including a contingent of Guild Ball players. We are now updating everyone's army and lore (http://razorvalley.wixsite.com/home/lore-gallery ) to be available, as will be the standard for all future events- information on the next tournament, a Highlander-style one, will be posted shortly.

Sisters of Silence are a totally different organization. As far as I know, they stopped existing after the end of the Heresy, while the Adeptus Sororitas didn't come into being until like M36 or something. Also, they were very specifically an Anti-Psyker organization, entirely consisting of Psychic Nulls/Pariahs.

Their fate is actually pretty unclear- they certainly survived past the end of the Heresy, but in smaller numbers and it is implied that they were actively disdainful, possibly even rebellious, towards the "new" Imperium after the enshrinement of the Emperor. They certainly were around at least until the War of the Beast and it's not impossible that some of them still survive up to M41.

Is that the Core issue of terminators? Sounds more like an issue for marines in general.

It really is a major issue for them, yes- if you can't survive a squad of Scat Bikes or Warp Spiders shooting you (or some Khorne Dogs assaulting you), you're in big trouble. Basic Marines are a lot less vulnerable to this because they are half as survivable per model (3+ vs. 2+ save) but about a third of the price, so they are comparatively much harder to kill.

Yeah. Allowing people to play with unpainted models isn't denying them their "rightful" shot at a prize, it is a concession to allow players who otherwise fail to meet one of the tournament's basic requirements (painted models) to still participate in a partial fashion, should personal circumstances make it impossible for them to finish preparing.

I'll give you an official answer!

 

I'll give you.......

 

Idaho

I wish to return my gift, as it does not suit my tastes or preferences.

p.145, first entry in the Wanderers section.

First, how does vector strike work with the knight Ion field?

 

Second, carapace weapons, are these worth it?

 

Third, any other commonly failed to comprehend Q&A regarding new knight players...?

 

Forth, how well do those power fist options work?

1. In ITC, an Ion Shield can never protect against Vector Strike because the Strike always hits nonspecific "side armor" whereas an Ion Shield protects either the left side or the right side specifically. The GW draft FAQ changes this (to use the final position of the model to determine which side you hit, I believe), but that is not currently being used by most tournaments.

2. Sometimes, it depends on your needs. The AP3 missiles are typically regarded as the best, followed by the skyfire gun,, with the barrage one being very rarely used. But, as noted, it depends a lot on what you need in your army.

4. It's awful. If it was a free swap then maybe you would sometimes want it, but paying points to lower your initiative is just pointless.

You may consider trying out the Warden (minigun) over the Paladin. The Battle Cannon has its place, but that torrent of AP3 shots really does some brutal work most games.

The Harridan is not legal in most ITC events, as they do not allow Flying Gargantuan Creatures. There are a small handful that do allow it (Broadside Bash and a few others, I think) but none that I'm aware of in the Northwest area.

If you're looking at Apocalypse stuff for Tyranids, it really comes down to the Scythed and Barbed Heirodule. Although neither is particularly amazing, they both have some useful traits; the Scythed has a good Hellstorm flamer that can wipe out Marines in numbers, though unfortunate that's really all it has going for it. The Barbed Heirodule is more commonly seen and can be a good way to break open certain kinds of vehicles; unfortunately, in a world of Grav, Monofilament and Destroyer it tends to go down fairly quickly even with the benefit of a Venomthrope/Malanthrope nearby.

I would think yes in both cases- and the sideboard specifically notes that your list needs to still be legal after making the substitutions. How you would handle "removing" a relic seems a bit less obvious if you drop a Battalion, but I don't imagine it would be too difficult to hash out.

Bumping the thread to remind everyone that there's just about a week left before event. We're not full up yet, so if you're interested in showing I would recommend picking up a ticket- the online pay option should be functional now. (Including your name as a note in the PayPal transaction is recommended, though not mandatory.)