Harridan (on paper)

[Guest]

After my game with that lord of skulls and my tinkering with the baneblade kit, I caught myself revisiting each of the Lords of War. The Harridan, in particular, is much more impressive than previously noticed.

 

So, at first glance it looks pretty lacking. No invulnerable save, a toughness only as good as a wraith knight (for 735pts, that's an "only"). Weapons are neither impressively ap nor D weapons. Only 8 wounds too, which is pretty low when you peer at the D weapons which lower wounds by up to d6+6 per shot.... and, like most bugs, no invulnerable save.

 

Been re-looking at the rules and I think it's better than initial reactions. Okay, so first he's S10 natural with vector strike. He's got 2 weapons at S10, both ap3 and both able to shoot at different targets as per the gargantuan creatures rules. So 3 targets per turn, or a single target taking 12+d3 shots. Granted, most of these are at BS 3, but still not horrible.

 

Next, as a gargantuan creature, the Harridan is both fearless and has FNP. In addition, poison and sniper weapons wound on 6s. This does mean that the vindicare assassin and about 50% of the DE's weapons are mostly useless against the harridan. A flying creature with sixes to hit, sixes to wound, and 3+ armor and 5+ FNP....Oh and natural toughness 8.

 

The other, very important bit, is that none of the escalation weapons that have a D profile can hit flyers. Yeah, they all need to ground the harridan in order to deal any damage.

 

Last, the harridan can assault. There is no longer a rule that allows shooting at a gargantuan creature locked in assault, so assaulting an IG blob would make the harridan able to avoid shooting for a round, provided that the IG don't just flee.

 

So, to put this in context, to, say revenant titan is there. The harridan flys up and shoots. 12 shots, 6 hits, 5 glances/pens, 2.5 unsaved HP lost against a moving revenant. The Revenant can only shoot back with a little missile launcher which hits on 6s and wounds on 6s, it does deny the Harridan's armor, but not it's FNP, it could cause a grounding test, but requires to hit the target with 4 shots at BS1. Harridan and Revenant can continue to hop around the table to avoid eachother, but ultimately, the revenant will lose unless another element of the eldar army grounds the Harridan or the Harridan lands and assaults the revenant.

 

In assault, the Harridan would strike fist as I10 with hammer of wraith at S10, then at I3 the harridan would strike with 5 swings, hitting on 3s and glancing on 2s. The holofield should apply, but the revenant can't get out of combat. In response, the revenant has 1 swing at I2. There is no stomping allowed for either unit, as those don't function against super heavy walkers or gargantuan creatures. Should the assault continue between the two, the Harridan will eventually win. 

 

It is true, the eldar/DE player could join the battle with another unit. This might be a mistake, as the stomp attacks would then be available for the Harridan.

 

It is very notable that the Harridan has equal or higher initiative to all the LoWs save the C'tan. None of the IG super heavies have any realistic anti-flyer solutions. The TAU superheavy flyer and the SM thunderhawk present the only real LoW threats to the Harridan. The ork Supa-gatla might get enough shots to hurt the harridan, but it still has to wound on 5s and doesn't deny FNP.

 

Anyway, conclusion has the Harridan as pretty impressive against other LoWs. Unclear how it would function again codex armies, but I imagine they'd give it more of a challenge.

-Pax

[WestRider]

Fortunately for the Revenant, Wave Serpents excel at forcing Grounding Tests. So do IG Support Units, really. The Harridan is hideously overpriced for something that can still be Grounded by Lasgun fire. Grounding takes away all the advantages it has over the other LoW.

[Hobbitron]

 

Fortunately for the Revenant, Wave Serpents excel at forcing Grounding Tests. So do IG Support Units, really. The Harridan is hideously overpriced for something that can still be Grounded by Markerlights. Grounding takes away all the advantages it has over the other LoW.

FTFY.

 

"I AM A TERRIFYING GARGANTUAN CREATURE THAT DEVOURS ALL FOR THE HI.... OW OW MY EYE"  crash burn die to missiles

[WestRider]

If a Tau Player really wants to waste his Markerlights Snap-firing at my FMC/FGC, I'm fine with that. Those are a valuable commodity in a Tau Army, and I'm getting value from wasting those shots. Lasguns in a Guard Army, on the other hand, are common as dirt.

[Guest]

True grounding makes for an easier kill, but still T8 3+ armor and FNP. Not exactly a pushover...

 

Not sure about tyranid codex, but should have some buffs you can get it.

-Pax

[WestRider]

FNP is the only buff available to pass along to other Units. Assuming you manage to roll Catalyst for one of your Psykers, of course.

 

And T8 is roughly equivalent to AV12, while most things capable of Wounding it reliably have AP3 or better. It's basically a WraithKnight with a couple of extra Wounds. And any Army that can't deal with a WraithKnight+a WraithLord these days has no business trying Escalation Games.

[Guest]

FNP is the only buff available to pass along to other Units. Assuming you manage to roll Catalyst for one of your Psykers, of course.

 

And T8 is roughly equivalent to AV12, while most things capable of Wounding it reliably have AP3 or better. It's basically a WraithKnight with a couple of extra Wounds. And any Army that can't deal with a WraithKnight+a WraithLord these days has no business trying Escalation Games.

Fair enough.

 

Anyway, I do agree that it looks overpriced. I was surprised in re-reading that gargantuan creatures don't get D weapon melee attacks. I was also surprised that they have no special grounding resistance for their flyers. I think for house rules, I'd give them D weapon melee (but not vector strikes) and only have grounding tests for weapons that actually wound (even if saved).

-Pax

[Hobbitron]

Fair enough.

 

Anyway, I do agree that it looks overpriced. I was surprised in re-reading that gargantuan creatures don't get D weapon melee attacks. I was also surprised that they have no special grounding resistance for their flyers. I think for house rules, I'd give them D weapon melee (but not vector strikes) and only have grounding tests for weapons that actually wound (even if saved).

-Pax

 

D weapon melees might be a bit much, people would probably like it a little better if they could smash for D weapon melees. Halve the attacks and still get the benefit of the D. Grounding tests against only weapons that wound would assist... but it's still only S5 to do it. Heavy bolters aren't exactly rare, or psybolt, or tau everything. Rerollable groundings, or 2+ grounding would be better. Should be harder to knock them out with a lascannon too imo.

 

And as for wasting marker lights on a Harridan, yes it would be a waste under most circumstances. It's largely the principle of the thing, but I could also see that if previous grounding checks didn't work, try for a hail mary with your last chance.

[Guest]

D weapon melees might be a bit much, people would probably like it a little better if they could smash for D weapon melees. Halve the attacks and still get the benefit of the D. Grounding tests against only weapons that wound would assist... but it's still only S5 to do it. Heavy bolters aren't exactly rare, or psybolt, or tau everything. Rerollable groundings, or 2+ grounding would be better. Should be harder to knock them out with a lascannon too imo.

Weapon has to wound in my suggestion, not just be able to wound (saved wounds count). That's sixes followed by sixes on a heavy bolter. It also means that markerlights and other, similar weapons are unable to force grounding tests. Goal isn't to make it impossible, just harder for the small arms. Still gets a 3+ to save Vs grounding after, so really, it's 1/108 HB shots causes a failed grounding test.

 

Re-rollable or 2+ grounding wouldn't help against volume fire of weak weapons, which is most of the unrealistic problem. Weapons designed to harm bigger targets shouldn't be as impaired.

 

D smash could work, though I really think D normal swings makes plenty of sense. This is a winged godzilla, storm shields shouldn't be blocking melee attacks, necrons should not be getting back up, and DE talos should not get FNP against this. For context, the ork super heavy, at very similar cost, has the same number of attacks, but they are all D weapons.

-Pax

[AbusePuppy]

If a Tau Player really wants to waste his Markerlights Snap-firing at my FMC/FGC, I'm fine with that. Those are a valuable commodity in a Tau Army, and I'm getting value from wasting those shots. Lasguns in a Guard Army, on the other hand, are common as dirt.

 

If grounding your Harridan lets them shoot it with the Str D blasts, they weren't wasted. That thing is rather a lot of points in your army. Not to mention the fact that the Markerlights are going to be the guns of last resort for the Tau player in that case- they have Kroot, Fire Warriors, tons of twin-linked guns, etc, etc, to throw at it first.

 

Not sure about tyranid codex, but should have some buffs you can get it.

 

The only buffs you can really give it from the new 'Nid book are FNP (from Catalyst, which it already has), Preferred Enemy (from the Swarmlord, which is gonna be another 400pts invested), or Shrouded (for the one turn or so that you may be able to keep a Venomthrope in range.)

 

Also keep in mind with its Vector Strike that you will have to pass over an enemy unit to use it and find a legal landing spot- and, unlike flyers, FGCs move 12"-24", which is considerably shorter. Its enormous base does not help this any, either, since most people will easily be able to close gaps in their line to prevent a foot-long plastic oval from being able to be placed down in the middle of their forces.