Quick clarification on the Vortex missle Aquila

[Threejacks]

Im on the fence about picking one of these up.I really want to as it would complete my Fortification collection and I really love all of the GW fort models..plus I like how they can be used by every army:)

 

Anyhow I was just reading how Vortex weapons work and from what Im seeing these missles would launch at the rate of one per turn but each one that is on the board would be reloacated at the beginning of each player turn?..so assuming you don't roll doubles or the marker doesn't move off the board there could easily be 2-3+ of these things floating around on the board during a 40k match?

 

And the way im reading it this would mean that if you launch on turn one then by the time its your turn again to launch another the original one(barring no dbls and its still on the board) will have actually landed in three different locations?( the original target shot then two other scatterings).That could be seriously devastating or ...just float off the board on the first shot of course.

 

Plus the marker is impassable terrains so this could lead to some major cockblocking of your opponents movement plan even if it isint causing any damage.

 

I guess the thing im seeing as being the real power behind the Vortex missles is the random factor and the distinct possibility that even just one missle could remain on board ravaging a corner or table section over several turns.

 

Anyone have one for sale?..or know were I can get one a bbit cheaper than the 115.00 gw price?

[Guest]

Im on the fence about picking one of these up.I really want to as it would complete my Fortification collection and I really love all of the GW fort models..plus I like how they can be used by every army:)

 

Anyhow I was just reading how Vortex weapons work and from what Im seeing these missles would launch at the rate of one per turn but each one that is on the board would be reloacated at the beginning of each player turn?..so assuming you don't roll doubles or the marker doesn't move off the board there could easily be 2-3+ of these things floating around on the board during a 40k match?

 

And the way im reading it this would mean that if you launch on turn one then by the time its your turn again to launch another the original one(barring no dbls and its still on the board) will have actually landed in three different locations?( the original target shot then two other scatterings).That could be seriously devastating or ...just float off the board on the first shot of course.

 

Plus the marker is impassable terrains so this could lead to some major cockblocking of your opponents movement plan even if it isint causing any damage.

 

I guess the thing im seeing as being the real power behind the Vortex missles is the random factor and the distinct possibility that even just one missle could remain on board ravaging a corner or table section over several turns.

 

Anyone have one for sale?..or know were I can get one a bbit cheaper than the 115.00 gw price?

If GG league, 20% off. That's wednesdays. League itself is $10, so even if you buy in and just play the one wednesday, you'd still save on the aquilla.

 

As for the vortex aquilla, beware that they are lots of "fun" rules there.

 

So, yeah, each time it fires, that's a new "vortex" marker on the table. This means that you could potentially have 7 markers on the table on the 7th turn with just that fortification.

 

That said, lots of drawbacks to this one.

 

First, weapon is not a barrage weapon. GW oversight, probably, but this means that you have to be able to draw TLOS from those missiles to your target. Given that the missiles are not taller than the walls, you need tall targets...Vortex rules specifiy removing models as if barrage weapon, but no mention about being a barrage weapon nor about not needing LOS.

 

Second, weapon is a blast weapon, so look at the building damage table and note that many of the results will require you to snap, which would prevent firing of the vortex missiles.

 

Third, if and when the opponent destroys that base, the drawback is pretty nastry for your own deployment zone. So, in example, I have a DS team that drops turn 1. With 4 meltas, I hit 3 times, pen 2 times, and one destroys the base (It's hard to destroy, but it can be done like this). Now, you roll 6-7 dice and each has a 1/3 chance to put a vortex template on your table side. My army just sits back and enjoys the show from my safe deployment zone.

 

In general, fortifications are very vulnerable to D weapons and melta suicide squads. Unlike super heavies, they lack hull points and can potentially be destroyed in a single shot.

 

That said, I encourage this fortification. It would be really fun to play with, even if it makes the game very iffy in tactics.

-Pax

[Threejacks]

Humm..you sure on the LoS issue?..that seems like it would pretty much render the Missle version useless as there are few models that are higher than the walls of the main bunker.

 

As for the other issues...the Aquila bunker is certainly vulnerable to the D however its all but impervious to other conventional fire with even a Str 10 needing a 6 to pen.Sure Melta up close and personal would be easier but with positioning and use of wire and misc bubble wrapping with troops/vehicles one can minimize the melta threat.OR...one can go ahead and leave it for the opponent to melta down and just not put any objectives close to it..after all theres a pretty fair chance that his DS team is gonna get nuked when it goes down anyway.

 

The one thing im seeing about the Missle bunker is that its a true wildcard for any scenario and it does add a ton of flexibility to your army when it comes to deployment after seeing what your opponents army is.

Basically if they have ranged D you can put the thing up front as far as possible(taking care that it cant be capped by him on turn one or two) even use the escape hatch option to place the hatch 12" back into your deployment zone so a squad can hop in the main annex on your first turn.That way with it far forward he can go ahead and D it up and let the vortexes float around for a few turns and see what happens...its gonna get blown were ever ya put it anyway,,in this case at least they may do something on their side of the line.

 

If they don't have ranged D then ya just need to protect against DS melta by bubble wrapping with wire and or troops.So placing in a corner with some basic troops inside and around it should do the trick at least long enough to get 2-3 shots off.Dont place any objectives close by it in this case.

 

In other cases were they only have ranged str10 or even perhaps D slappers then you should be good placing it with only a garrison and perhaps the wire around it.

 

The really nasty thing im seeing about these missles is that each missle fired has a pretty fair chance of landing(randomly of course) at least 4 large template D blasts in your opponents side of the table throughout the game.Relocating template locations at the beginning of EACH player turn is friggen scary for both players!

 

But yeah if LoS for the missles can only be traced at targets taller than the Large bunker walls then its borked to hell...

[WestRider]

The one thing im seeing about the Missle bunker is that its a true wildcard for any scenario and it does add a ton of flexibility to your army when it comes to deployment after seeing what your opponents army is.

Basically if they have ranged D you can put the thing up front as far as possible(taking care that it cant be capped by him on turn one or two) even use the escape hatch option to place the hatch 12" back into your deployment zone so a squad can hop in the main annex on your first turn.That way with it far forward he can go ahead and D it up and let the vortexes float around for a few turns and see what happens...its gonna get blown were ever ya put it anyway,,in this case at least they may do something on their side of the line.

Note that you don't get to place the Emergency Escape Hatch until the first time a Unit occupies the Fort. I've been messing around with that option for some Nid shenanigans, and that's a pretty big limiting factor in some situations.

[Guest]

Humm..you sure on the LoS issue?..that seems like it would pretty much render the Missle version useless as there are few models that are higher than the walls of the main bunker.

 

As for the other issues...the Aquila bunker is certainly vulnerable to the D however its all but impervious to other conventional fire with even a Str 10 needing a 6 to pen.Sure Melta up close and personal would be easier but with positioning and use of wire and misc bubble wrapping with troops/vehicles one can minimize the melta threat.OR...one can go ahead and leave it for the opponent to melta down and just not put any objectives close to it..after all theres a pretty fair chance that his DS team is gonna get nuked when it goes down anyway.

 

The one thing im seeing about the Missle bunker is that its a true wildcard for any scenario and it does add a ton of flexibility to your army when it comes to deployment after seeing what your opponents army is.

Basically if they have ranged D you can put the thing up front as far as possible(taking care that it cant be capped by him on turn one or two) even use the escape hatch option to place the hatch 12" back into your deployment zone so a squad can hop in the main annex on your first turn.That way with it far forward he can go ahead and D it up and let the vortexes float around for a few turns and see what happens...its gonna get blown were ever ya put it anyway,,in this case at least they may do something on their side of the line.

 

If they don't have ranged D then ya just need to protect against DS melta by bubble wrapping with wire and or troops.So placing in a corner with some basic troops inside and around it should do the trick at least long enough to get 2-3 shots off.Dont place any objectives close by it in this case.

 

In other cases were they only have ranged str10 or even perhaps D slappers then you should be good placing it with only a garrison and perhaps the wire around it.

 

The really nasty thing im seeing about these missles is that each missle fired has a pretty fair chance of landing(randomly of course) at least 4 large template D blasts in your opponents side of the table throughout the game.Relocating template locations at the beginning of EACH player turn is friggen scary for both players!

 

But yeah if LoS for the missles can only be traced at targets taller than the Large bunker walls then its borked to hell...

LOS issue is very likely an oversight. Ask the opponent before hand, and use the macrocannon profile if TLOS is going to be an issue (Same points cost).

 

S10 is mostly worthless against these. Have a buddy that got a pair of demolisher tanks in range and hammered it fruitlessly for several turns. You need melta, haywire, or other weapons that either don't roll against armor or ones that roll very high against armor.

 

I will note that you really don't need to pen it that many times at AV15. Look at the building damage table:

1: -1 AV on all sides

2: Building must snap, this means neither the macro nor the vortex can fire as both use blast weapons which can't fire while snapping

3: Guys inside take damage, buiidly must snap as per #2.

4: As per #3, additionally radomize one building weapon to be destroyed (means that if you don't take heavy bolters, the main cannon is gone, )

5: As per #4, additionally removes d3 AV from all facings

6-7: Building is destroyed.

 

So, DS melta team. Lands with pod within 12" of the building. Unit disembarks within 6" of the building. Hits on BS as normal (3s for SM). Average pen roll on 2d6 is 7, which is a glance, so slight above average required for a pen. On the pen table, +2 for ap1, -1 for mighty bulwark, so net +1. So, with any result on the building damage table, building will be forced to snap (net +1 bonus, so results 2-7 on the table), 1/3 will destroy it.

 

Or, in alternative, DE ravager. 3 Dark Lances at BS4, so 2 hits. Unless buildings are immune to the lance rule and I missed it, mister AV15 is treated as AV12 for these shots. Target is penatrated on 5s with regular DE lance weapons. AP2 with +1 and mighty bulkwerk at -1, so net +0 on the building damage table. 5/6 prevent cannon/vortex firing. 1/6 destroys it. 1/3 reduces AV.

 

Or how about Necrons with the infinite range Harp of Resonance, which hits on a 3, and on a 4+ reduces your AV by 1, then it's just an AV14 target for Heavy guass cannons, doomsday arcs, or death rays.

 

The medusa with bastion breacher shells or the LR vanquisher are also great options against AV15.

 

Point is, you can cope with that fortification. It's a nasty one, but you can cope with it if you design your lists with alternative methods to punch armor apart. AV15 buildings are beaten by AV solutions, but they aren't easy (with 535pts spent, it shouldn't be easy).

-Pax

[Threejacks]

Note that you don't get to place the Emergency Escape Hatch until the first time a Unit occupies the Fort. I've been messing around with that option for some Nid shenanigans, and that's a pretty big limiting factor in some situations.

Ahh yeah I just read that again..so does that mean that its not revealed until after unit deployment?..in the case of say Orks wanting to put one forward of say a bunker/bastion they are starting in.I thought it went down when ya placed the fort itself which would be before even the remainder of terrain deployment.

[WestRider]

As I read it, if you Deploy something in there, you put the Escape Hatch down when you Deploy them, but if it starts the Game empty, the Escape Hatch isn't placed until a Unit moves in.