Fortress of Redemption

[Guest]

Bought a fortress of redemption.

 

I have grossly underestimated how large this building is. Somehow, in GG shop terrain, it just doesn't feel as large as it does in my home.

 

I got the tower built. It's just under 14" tall. Yeah, more than a foot in height. Top of the tower can fit, without base overlap, 1x 60mm base, 3x 40mm bases, 3x new bike/calvary bases, or 9x 25mm bases (densly packed, but they fit).

 

Silo bunker isn't built yet. Looks like it, with silo covered, can include 3x 60mm bases or 1x oval base - huge flat area. I think that without walls, I could put a land raider in the open space.

 

Lascannon bunker isn't built either. Looks like 40mm bases are the max for it's battlements.

 

The walkway building connector is built. Certainly holds 25mm and 40mm, but looks wide enough for those 50mm centurions, Someone else will have to verify, as I don't own any.

 

The tower is really the most tactically interesting feature. At ~14" of height, a model on top is effectively out of range of melta guns and out of bolter rapid range. Yeah, the building could be destroyed and they'd fall off, but it's a very interesting feature. Drop pod armies in particular would be impaired by the tower's height. You'd land with the pod and still be ~13" from the model on top, even if practically in base contact with the tower. Under present rules, the top is treated as upper levels of ruins, so I could legally park a skimmer on the top. Getting off would still be dangerous, as normal, but it could be very...amusing to park a ravager with nightshields on top of that tower.

 

I will note that although buildings are vulnerable to D weapons, the Fortress has a bit of leeway with it's size and multiple buildings. It would be challenging to get a D blast weapon (usually large blast) to hit all 4 sections. 3 sections would be tough, but do-able on a hit result. Void shielding one or two of the sections might be mandatory, though I'm not too sure there - Depends if we ever get those void shields FAQed.

 

Anyway, lots to think about with set and lots still to paint.

-Pax

[AbusePuppy]

Keep in mind that the skimmer would have a hell of a time getting down if you put it up there, as 14" from the ground is more than you can move normally- you'd have to be Fast and go Flat Out (or move down to one of the lower levels of the PLAYSET to get off.) Standing on top is also pretty much always fatal if someone wrecks the tower, as you're taking an Impact test with a -4 penalty.

 

And yeah, the G.I. JOE PLAYSET is absolutely enormous. Even the bunkers, merely small buildings under the rules, are easily 10" across.

 

You're going to want to convert it to add a door to each of the sections- the stock model only has a single entry point for the entire fortification, meaning it can take as much as four full turns of movement to get all the way to the battlements on the far end from there.

[Threejacks]

 Nice!

 

 That's the only fort I don't have yet and yeah,,cuz its friggen huge!lol

 

 Though I just finished the Aquila and its pretty big too heh.

 

 Theres a few things about the Redemption that have bugged me one being no option to upgrade the emplaced main gun to either Qaud Icarus or Quad gun..hoping that gets changed or faq`d in the near future.And it would also be nice if one wanted to maybe remove the missile battery and replace it with a gun too.Or maybe they could take one Apoc Barrage missile set instead.

 

 I really groove on that main tower  ,yeah whoever gets stationed up there will remain  till death  but seems like a great place for a Master of Ordinance along with maybe a psyker or one of those HQ formations even.

 

 I wouldn't worry too much about D weapons and how it will hold up but yeah I would take the VS upgrade on each emplaced gun section and probably the main tower if you are gonna use it for some HIgh value unit perching.

 

 

 That is an awesome looking model! Grats on the purchase!

[Guest]

Keep in mind that the skimmer would have a hell of a time getting down if you put it up there, as 14" from the ground is more than you can move normally- you'd have to be Fast and go Flat Out (or move down to one of the lower levels of the PLAYSET to get off.) Standing on top is also pretty much always fatal if someone wrecks the tower, as you're taking an Impact test with a -4 penalty.

I remain unclear if vertical movement is counted for skimmers. I've heard arguments that vertical movement isn't counted for jump infantry, and they have very similar wording of rules, though I don't have any quotes that specifically address this one or the jump infantry one. If it is counted, then you could technically move flat out to get off, as you mentioned, or use the silo as a stepping stone to get off over multiple turns (or in one turn with movement to the silo, then flat out off). That said, as ruins, the bigger danger is that moving off is dangerous terrain.

 

As for impact tests, two notes. First, impact tests specifically ignore modifiers for jump and jet pack units, it would be reasonable, though not covered, to extend this to skimmers. Second, failing an impact test as a vehicle just means immobilized and 1 HP loss. Impact tests deny armor saves, but invulnerable saves could still be taken (like flicker fields or a PFG located at the base of the building).

 

Despite the above skimmer reference, my plan is to put desperate DE scourges on top. They will have Dark lances, so should have good range from up there. The models are tall, so seeing over the walls shouldn't be an issue. Lastly, they are jump infantry, so if they want off or are forced off, they won't take multiple jumping off penalties and have a 6++ save should they fail dangerous terrain. The other advantage to the tall tower is that desperate allies on top would be 6" away from my primary detachment on the bottom, so they don't take one eye open tests.

 

 

 Theres a few things about the Redemption that have bugged me one being no option to upgrade the emplaced main gun to either Qaud Icarus or Quad gun..hoping that gets changed or faq`d in the near future.And it would also be nice if one wanted to maybe remove the missile battery and replace it with a gun too.Or maybe they could take one Apoc Barrage missile set instead.

 

.....

 

 I wouldn't worry too much about D weapons and how it will hold up but yeah I would take the VS upgrade on each emplaced gun section and probably the main tower if you are gonna use it for some HIgh value unit perching.

Well, I'm annoyed that I can't buy it without weapons, despite the kit being able to be built like that. That said, both of the weapons are amazing additions to any army. I like the TL icarius because I can use my full BS on it and have free range of targets, unlike the FSR weapons. The silo is pretty awesome because it presents an indirect option to armies that lack one. The krakstorm upgrade makes it effectively an indirect battle cannon which is a pretty solid counter against more artillery tanks (because barrage always hits side armor...).

 

As for void shields, there are some ways to manipulated those a bit. In example, a void shield on the tower would effectively cover the walk way too, as D blast weapons would be hard pressed to hit the walkway and not the tower. Still, each void shield is very expensive and one of the very valuable features of this fortification is it's inexpensive cost. At stock price, I'm paying an average of 55pts per AV14 building section. I plan to do trials with the fortress before deciding which sections to void shield, as I'm not sure which sections will be targeted the most or if weapons are enough of a threat to really pay 25pts per shield

 

I will note that being so huge is a huge advantage against D weapons and super heavies, as this thing really blocks TLOS.

-Pax

[AbusePuppy]

I remain unclear if vertical movement is counted for skimmers. I've heard arguments that vertical movement isn't counted for jump infantry, and they have very similar wording of rules, though I don't have any quotes that specifically address this one or the jump infantry one.

 

Vertical movement is only counted when moving into the upper levels of ruins, essentially, which in this case applies.

 

 

As for impact tests, two notes. First, impact tests specifically ignore modifiers for jump and jet pack units, it would be reasonable, though not covered, to extend this to skimmers. Second, failing an impact test as a vehicle just means immobilized and 1 HP loss. Impact tests deny armor saves, but invulnerable saves could still be taken (like flicker fields or a PFG located at the base of the building).

 

Keep in mind that the only vehicles that are able to take Impact tests are walkers- there is no situation in which a skimmer can be forced (or choose to) take one.

 

 

As for void shields, there are some ways to manipulated those a bit. In example, a void shield on the tower would effectively cover the walk way too, as D blast weapons would be hard pressed to hit the walkway and not the tower. Still, each void shield is very expensive and one of the very valuable features of this fortification is it's inexpensive cost. At stock price, I'm paying an average of 55pts per AV14 building section. I plan to do trials with the fortress before deciding which sections to void shield, as I'm not sure which sections will be targeted the most or if weapons are enough of a threat to really pay 25pts per shield

 

If you want to get good mileage out of your PLAYSET, make sure you're taking advantage of the features of each of the sections. The walkway has six fire points on the front- find a unit with enough guns to use a significant number of them and give it the Ammo Dump upgrade so they can reroll 1s. (This is particularly helpful with Plasma, obviously.) In my experience the Icarus bunker is the most commonly targeted section of the PLAYSET, since it presents a major threat to flyers; a Void Shield there wouldn't be inappropriate, though the Krakstorm bunker also tends to make a very tempting target. Having an Escape Hatch somewhere on the PLAYSET can also add a lot of flexibility to it, since it can give you significantly more "reach" than people might assume in terms of spreading forces across the battlefield. The 10pt upgrade to allow firing with all sections of the PLAYSET if any one is occupied is also well worth its cost- generally, by turn 2-3 you've lost enough models that you can't hold onto all the sections easily.

[Guest]

Okay, so looking into transportation options with this huge kit and I was also reviewing it's rules:

 

Multiple part building. The
main tower is a medium building (Armour
Value 14) with battlements. The bunker
annexes are both small buildings (Armour
Value 14) with battlements. The connecting
walkway is a small building (Armour Value
14) with battlements.

Yeah, 1 medium and 3x small buildings!?!?!?!?!

 

This is easily 2x medium (bunkers), 1x small (walkway), and 1x large buildings (tower). That walkway alone is as long as the FSR and the same height, even if a bit skinnier.

 

 

1 Vertical movement is only counted when moving into the upper levels of ruins, essentially, which in this case applies.

 

 

2 Keep in mind that the only vehicles that are able to take Impact tests are walkers- there is no situation in which a skimmer can be forced (or choose to) take one.

 

 

3 If you want to get good mileage out of your PLAYSET, make sure you're taking advantage of the features of each of the sections. The walkway has six fire points on the front- find a unit with enough guns to use a significant number of them and give it the Ammo Dump upgrade so they can reroll 1s. (This is particularly helpful with Plasma, obviously.) In my experience the Icarus bunker is the most commonly targeted section of the PLAYSET, since it presents a major threat to flyers; a Void Shield there wouldn't be inappropriate, though the Krakstorm bunker also tends to make a very tempting target. Having an Escape Hatch somewhere on the PLAYSET can also add a lot of flexibility to it, since it can give you significantly more "reach" than people might assume in terms of spreading forces across the battlefield. The 10pt upgrade to allow firing with all sections of the PLAYSET if any one is occupied is also well worth its cost- generally, by turn 2-3 you've lost enough models that you can't hold onto all the sections easily.

1: fair enough.

 

2: How did you conclude that non-walker vehicles can't take impact tests?

 

BRB, pg95: Basically says that "models" on battlements (or upper levels of ruins on pg99) can elect to take impact tests to move off the battlements, with impact tests functionally being dangerous terrain tests with -1 modifiers for each 3" dropped. SA classifies battlements as upper levels of ruins, meaning skimmers can land on them. As for the impact tests, really easy to take one as a vehicle, just role dangerous with -1 to the roll for each 3" traveled down, becoming immobilized if that's what you roll.

 

3: Yeah, this thing will get spendy really fast. For now, 250pts with just the silo upgrade for better indirect missiles. Ideally, I want it cheap (ish) as I don't want it's cost greater than just getting several AV14 vehicles. I intend to man it with a skeleton crew to force my opponents to consider attacking it instead of my main force.

 

I will note that the upgrade to "allow firing with all sections of the PLAYSET if any one is occupied" actually only is for the main tower. Only if I occupy the main tower, can I fire weapons from the other sections. Reread that rule.

 

This messes with my army plan, as I want the DE on that tower, but don't want them in the tower because it would put them within 6" of my army. Same issue if IG occupy the main tower while the DE are on top.

-Pax

[Lord Hanaur]

My buddy packs three Plasma Cannon Longfangs in his building with Tigurius and a couple rune priests for added fun.  uses a Storm to mess with Deep Strikers which just sits behind it and does nothing until the end.  I think he has a couple pods to try and keep the enemy in the backfield while he whittles whats up front and then kinda hopes you'll give up on assaulting the Fortress while he lays down the boom on your anti-fortress strength units.

 

Its kinda not nice.

 

stay at 37" away and you can just kill his pod units but ultiately given objectives...  at some point you have top try to come at him unless its my base/Yourbase.  I've given some thought to the shortcomings of this and have found a couple, but nothing that I think takes away from the incredible effectiveness of this approach.  I've got a plan (we've only fought once with his Fortress) but I haven't had a chance to try it.  I basically won the game last time but my Daemonforging Heldrake couldn't kill 3 guys.  sigh,  So close...

[AbusePuppy]

2: How did you conclude that non-walker vehicles can't take impact tests?

 

Normal vehicles aren't allowed onto the upper levels of ruins under any circumstances, and skimmers have their own rules for moving up and down ruin levels. That leaves only walkers as models potentially affected by the Impact test rules.