SM w/Tau help please:)

[Threejacks]

  Finally getting around to working on possible army lists for my SM and im sure ill need some advice.

 

 Im wanting to try them with Tau as I would like to at least have a somewhat competitive army with them and my past attempts using them with my IG ended up rather Meh.

 

 Heres my initial list I would like to try out I wont put points down as its kinda a rough list:

 

 Space Marine Primary- Raven Sentinals sub chapter of the Raven Guard (my 11 year old liked the name,heh)  so they will be using the all scout rule and Stealth on turn one.I would also like to stick with the Raven guard fluff loosly:)

 

 -Librarian warlord..not sure if I should do the lvl 2 upgrade

 

 -Scout Squad

    Vet Sgt  w/Storm Bolter

    Hvy Bolter with Hellfire shells

   Others just have boltguns

   LSS Transport w/Assualt cannon                I have the LSS (Sucker for the cool ya know) but not sure how well this will work.Im thinking with First turn stealth/scout they should have most all of the board available to get to and maybe set up some shooting/harassment....or more than likely end up a 2 unit fist blood,lol

 

 -Tac Squad

     Vet sgt w/melta bombs and comb-melta

     Multimelta

     Plasmagun

     5 additional marines

      I would likely deploy these guys as 2 5 man groups with one possibly using a Drop pod?(need to get one though) or should I do the Rhino thing...

 

 -Assault Squad

     Vet sgt w/melta bombs and Grav Pistol

    2 Flamer dudes

    5 Additional Marines

   Not sure on loadout here but I do want to be able to take advantage of the reroll charge distance bonus and I figure with flamers I can do that even If I do burn the front rank out of a charge target,hehe.Once again with 10 guys I can split them if needed.

 

  This group of marines is probably around 650

 

 Want to run my new Knight in the mix too so ill probably do the KE I think hes 370 pts

 

 Then for the Tau;

 

 Crisis Commander with TLMP and CIB

 

  Crisis Bodyguard team

  2x Suits

  TLMP and maybe a target lock or something

 

  Firewarriors

  Shasui with TL/ML

  Bonding Knife

  5 additional warriors

 

   Skyray with dscrutpion pod and probably SMS changed out for the drones

 

 And I would love to put a Riptide in but I still need to get one if it would be a good addition to the combo.

 

 This group comes in around 525 I think so that puts me at around 1550 or so and I would like to build for 1850 as that seems the standard game now.

 

 So any ideas as to what to add/take away here?

 

 Thnx for the look:)

 

 

 

 

  

    

          

 

[AbusePuppy]

Raven Guard, while not unusable, is one of the trickier Chapter Tactics to take advantage of. There are basically two ways you can do it: one, by running a bunch of dedicated transports (rhinos, razors, etc) or two, by running a lot of Drop Pods. You seem a bit on the fence about things so far, so before recommending much more, I would say figure that part out. Also, as much as Assault Squads fit the fluff of RG, they don't work with the actual rules at all (because GW is stupid sometimes), so I would strongly recommend dropping them.

 

ML2 upgrade on the Librarian is pretty much always worthwhile. Roll on Telepathy, it easily has the best selection of powers for basic Marines.

 

The Tau half of things should ideally be looking to support the SM with its firepower and presumably hold a home objective as well. To that end, I think your setup could use a bit of adjusting, although it's not bad overall. One option to save you some points would be to take a Cadre Fireblade instead of a Commander- he's significantly cheaper and when joined to a unit of Fire Warriors he puts out an impressive weight of fire. Alternately, you could keep the Commander but adjust his loadout a bit- the CIB isn't a great match for the Missile Pod despite their similar statlines because its range is so much shorter. Just take a pair of non-TL Missile Pods (you're already BS5, you don't really need the reroll) and back them up with a Target Lock, ATS, or some other system. Iridium Armor and/or Puretide Neurochip are both really strong signature systems to take as well.

 

Oh, and drop the upgrades from the Fire Warriors- they just aren't really worth it. Maybe take a Shas'ui if you go with the full twelve bodies, but nothing else.

[Threejacks]

      Yeah I see that the Assault squads got doinked by loosing the first turn stealth/scout part of the chapter tactic,.This is really dumb because I could put a Landraider out in the middle of the field and it would have a scout move and stealth turn one. anyhow.I would likely deep strike with them anyway but I don't have much problem dropping them either.

 

  That's one of the issues im having here..im not sure how to even play an army that has so much reserving,deepstriking and scouting but im kinda stoked to learn the tricks as im getting rather bored with the Ork "Charge till dead" tactics.I do see that having a lot of outflank,DSing options makes an army very flexible and to this end I would like to maintain that focus being RG and all that.

 

  With the Knight in the Frontline "up the middle" type of position and even possibly adding a Riptide to the mix im leaning toward the Drop pod route for the marines.But going that route should I just drop in the Tac squads with their limited extra weapons or should I do the Sterngaurd Melta thing I hear is so nasty....which brings me to another option ive been looking into and that is using a unit of 2 or 3 Land Speeders sporting 2 multimeltas each.With these guys I can either scout move turn one giving me a 24" Melta threat or a 36" str 8 ap 1 threat range all with a minimum 4+jink +stealth cover./.Or I could DS them or even outflank and likely have 4-6 melta shots going out.They are spendy and rather fragile but they don't take moral checks and a group of 3 would be 6 hp`s 2 at a time.

[Guest]

      Yeah I see that the Assault squads got doinked by loosing the first turn stealth/scout part of the chapter tactic,.This is really dumb because I could put a Landraider out in the middle of the field and it would have a scout move and stealth turn one. anyhow.I would likely deep strike with them anyway but I don't have much problem dropping them either.

Chapter tactics doesn't apply to models without the chapter tactics special rule. Third sentence of the first paragraph on the left hand column, page 77.

 

That said, the Iron Hands one seems to directly contradict the above, as none of the vehicles have the chapter tactics special rule.

 

Sure glad I don't field C:SM...what a headache.

 

Anyway, land raiders with scout are a bad idea. First issue is that if they use scout, the unit can't charge turn 1, so you have that issue. Second issue is that AV14 becomes dramatically easier to destroy the closer it get's to the enemy. Unless trying to use the LR as a sacrificial piece, this is a bad idea (and horribly unfluffy).

[AbusePuppy]

Iron Hands explicitly notes that tanks from its detachment benefit from the Tactic, even though they don't have the rule. No real contradiction there.

 

I think running a Knight, Tau, and SM all together is definitely reaching a bit far in most game sizes- while it's certainly legal to do, that's putting a lot on your plate at once.

 

if you want to focus on RG's shenanigans, though, transports are definitely the way to go- Rhinos will be your mainstay, but a Razorback here and there is probably a good plan as well.

[Threejacks]

Chapter tactics doesn't apply to models without the chapter tactics special rule. Third sentence of the first paragraph on the left hand column, page 77.

 

That said, the Iron Hands one seems to directly contradict the above, as none of the vehicles have the chapter tactics special rule.

 

Sure glad I don't field C:SM...what a headache.

 

Anyway, land raiders with scout are a bad idea. First issue is that if they use scout, the unit can't charge turn 1, so you have that issue. Second issue is that AV14 becomes dramatically easier to destroy the closer it get's to the enemy. Unless trying to use the LR as a sacrificial piece, this is a bad idea (and horribly unfluffy).

   Ahh yeah I see what ya mean..looks like the LS and LSS wouldn't even get the stealth benefit first turn either..bummer. I am tempted to still run them due to the fluff and coolness factor though.

 

  I wouldn't use a LR at all but was just using that as an example as to if they could in fact use the scout and stealth rule in comparison to not allowing the assault troops to use it..doesn't matter anyway as you pointed  out,heh.

 

 

  Abuse Puppy;

 " I think running a Knight, Tau, and SM all together is definitely reaching a bit far in most game sizes- while it's certainly legal to do, that's putting a lot on your plate at once"

 

   Was thinking the same thing when I started this list idea but after looking at the costs of some of the more assault based Marine units along with the transportation needed to get them some face time it wasn't too much cheaper than a Knight.Plus im always trying to do too much with new lists just to see what works and what doesn't.

 

   Lots of stuff to think about

 

 Thnx guys!

[Lord Hanaur]

I played with Space Marine allies in my Tau force.  it worked pretty well.  I took 10 Terminators and Lysander.  Lysander is awesome.

 

You're playing it the other way but i dont see why he wouldn't be just as good backed up by tau instead.