DA trickery (army blog)

[Guest]

Still running my Exorcists using DA rules. Been trying to decide on the right combination of DA question-able rules.

 

I used this:

 

HQ

Azrael (furious charge for unit trait)

Techmarine (Bike, powerfield generator)

 

Elites

 

Troops

Attack Bike Squad (3, 2x MG, sarge w/MB)

Tactical Squad (10, MG, sarge w/Fist+C:MG,)

-Pod

Tactical Squad (10, PC, sarge w/sword+BP)

Deathwing Terminators (5, 2x TH+SS, 2x SB+Chainfist, Sarge w/TH+SS)

-Dedicated LRR (MM, Deathwing Vehicle)

 

Fast Attack

Dark Talon

 

Heavy Support

Predator (TL lascannon, las sides)

Predator (TL lascannon, las sides)

Predator (TL lascannon, las sides)

 

Opponent was imperial fists (pedro) and not very familiar with his own rules. Still, I tested things I haven't tested before.

 

Attack bikes joined the techmarine and those formed the core. Around this core was the LRR and 2 preds within powerfield range. I purposely had one pred just outside it, in order to bait my enemy to not shoot the LRR. Between the venerable rule, the techmarine, and the 4++ on the land raider, I was pretty stocked about my own durability. Opponent had grav weapons, which ignore the venerable rule, and inflict 3 hull points with only two grav damages. Mister techmarine decided to not repair the LRR on any of my turns, despite 4 solid attempts at rolling 5+...

 

Dark Talon never got a chance to use the stasis bomb. Idea was to bomb a unit, knocking it -3 to intiative, so marines would strike simotaniusly as my terminators. Planned opponent was those new knight titans, as it would knock them to intiative 1, and my chainfists would at least get to swing. Opponent didn't have one and it just didn't pan out there. I did however, get to use the other weapons and rules a few times. Hoverstrike giving me BS5 hurricane bolters with pinning let me cause two tests, which both passed. The 3 HP on the flyer was what kept it alive all game, as with only 2 HP it would have died to an earlier attack (ended the game with 1 HP left). The blinding cannon did blind a unit, but that unit died shortly after. Not the best test, but I will certainly field it again, as it does add quite a few support elements to the army, even if it's basically a free KP for TAU opponents....

 

Despite running Azrael and 4 units of troops, we got the KP mission, so all those troops didn't really help. I knocked a wound on a centurion with that combi-plasma, and the leadership 10 certainly aided the army (leadership 10 and stubborn on everything was certainly an annoying feature for my opponent).

 

Tactical squad landed point blank from an enemy LRC, landing with a hit not 4" from the table edge. We fired two melta guns at the LR, hit once, and then failed miserably to penetrate it with a melta gun 1" away. Such fail.

 

Preds destroyed a storm raven with lascannon volume fire. At 115pts each, I may want to field these in the future. That said, I'd have to buy/convert them, as they ones I had were cannibalized quite some time ago...these were proxies. Normally I'd bring devastators, but in list creation I decided that I needed the AV to make my opponent not focus fire the LR with all their shooting.

 

Anyway, in the game I lost 3x KP (attack squadron, pod, and the dropping tacitcal squad) and, despite going first, my opponent had first blood. I had 4x KP against him (SR, SR's embarked 10-man sternguard unit, devastator centurions, and assault centurions). A tie game.

 

In case wondering about the tie, we had lots of really oversized (mostly wide) terrain pieces included. Opponent deployed in a split formation, so I really only fought against half his army, while my army was stuck in an annoying choke point. His infantry foot slogging from one corner, while my tanks had no LOS to them for all of the game. Opponent didn't really move his LRC the entire game, so it just sat sad in the back corner all game. In hindsight, I should have ignored the LRC and focused on the lighter infantry hiding in the other corner. Still, I assumed much that didn't happen (like him advancing the LRC....).

[Guest]

Saw a game recently at WOW that featured pure death wing, got me thinking about my DA (exorcists)...ordered some more terminators. Also ordered the plasma cannon bits.

 

I'm not going pure deathwing, but I have been really leaning towards terminator troops. Most of my 6th has actually been using scouts instead of the other DA choices. I plan to run Azrael, not belial. I've tested belial and found him mostly lacking. Azrael is nice, but can't deep strike with his terminators, nor keep up with his bikes. I'll probably get a big unit of terminators for him to join in the backfield for objectives missions - one of his choice warlord traits makes him and his unit have FNP while near an objective. Azrael is neat because he gives the terminators the 4++ too, so the need for storm shields is lessened.

[Threejacks]

Jusr recently picked up a DW command squad for my Sons DA...he assembled them as Knights and I plan to use the remaining bits on a set of Dark Vengence termies ive yet to put together.

 

We actually did a little 1k fight today vs my Orks and CSM and those Knights pretty much cleared out the Cultist and Orks I had in my backfield,heh.

 

And Yeah,hes ran Belial several times...about the only real good thing about him is the no scatter DS.Being only T4 without Eternal Warrior hes really not worth all those points.

 

Overall we now have 20 Terminators-10 from DV,5 Knights and 5 unbuilt that I can probably bash into the special weapon equipped ones.

 

We also have a LR,5x scouts and the 2 10 man DV tac squads plus the other HQ choices.

Oh and Niphilim that I fully magnetized(even the tail rudder,lol) so that I can make either version..actually ran this thing today as a Niphilim and it did OK.Was hoping to try the dog fighting rules with the Ork BLitza bomba but it didn't work out,heh.

 

Not sure were to go with this army though so ill be watching here to see how yours builds up:)

[Last_Bullet]

I am a huge fan of 9 tactical marines ina drop pod with azreil

[Guest]

I am a huge fan of 9 tactical marines ina drop pod with azreil

Interesting. Doesn't seem super reliable, given that It costs about as much as 10x terminators...

[Last_Bullet]

You don’t take Azreil because hes this bad a$$ character that will walk your opponent himself.  You take him because your entire army should become scoring and he gets to choose his warlord trait.  If you roll out of the book then 5/6 missions should be objective based.  I usually take the “feel no pain” trait.  With a drop pod and exiting 6” you should be within 3” of an objective to make a Tactical squad 3+/4+ 5+ FnP.  Bolter fire will not remove that squad and what will reliably damage that squad will need to look towards the 4+ squads of Terminators that just arrived with said Drop Pod.

 

I run dual force org if able and run

Azreil

4 Tactical Terms Squads with 5 guys each

2 6 man Bike squads (combat squaded)

 

1 Librarian (with Prescience)

9 Tact w/ Drop Pod

5 Tact with Missile/ Flakk

 

Even if you cant duel Force Org its easy to make that list single Force Org by making the Term squads bigger but I like my Sergeants in my term squads.  But that’s 10 scoring, durable units with a great alpha strike.

[Guest]

 

You don’t take Azreil because hes this bad a$$ character.....

 

Yeah, probably not. I do like his blinding combi-plasma...

 

Though for your list, why not attack bikes instead of +3 members to those squads. If combat squad-ing anyway, seems logical. Attack bike is scoring and his own unit, plus you don't gain any special weapons for more members of the bike squad. I'd only go with 6 bikes if I really wanted a speeder in that mix.

 

Also, what weapons does that tactical squad have? Or is it stock?

 

List is interesting, but I can't really imagine you'd win at the 2k level with this. Seems like you have a single AA weapon in the list (the 5 man tact squad), and very few solutions to AT that aren't "punch it."

[Last_Bullet]

You want the bikes for 2 main reasons.  First is you want the first turn badly.  Since you wont know where your opponent is deploying you want the 12 bikes to spread across the field so you will have teleport homers where you need to be.  2nd is you will get stuck in and they will run from you.  You need the bikes to assault with the Terms so either run them down or keep them in combat.

 

I remember reading that if you have an attack bike the squad can not combat squad.  The FAQ I believe.

 

The tactical has a Plasma pistol and a plasma gun.  I try to keep them close to the Librarian for Prescience.

 

You are correct that chainfists are about the only solution.  You can get a lucky rend with the assault cannons and Cyclone missles aren’t bad.  The only army I have had a problem with is AV 13 Necron spam.  Flyers aren’t much of a problem because everything will be on 1 half of the table and flyers rarely get to shoot 2 turns in a row at a “good” target and with so many terminators you don’t care about vector strikes.  Also split fire lets you shoot assault cannons at flyers and bolters at what you want to charge.

 

This list also makes for fast games.  First turn you are already in rapid fire range!

[WestRider]

I remember reading that if you have an attack bike the squad can not combat squad.  The FAQ I believe.

 

That's a misreading of the bit in the RavenWing Combat Squads Rule. All it actually means is that the Attack Bike isn't counted for determining whether or not the Squad is at 6 Models, and thus capable of Combat Squadding.

 

The actual drawback to RavenWing Attack Bikes is that they're always a separate Unit from the Squad they were bought with, and unlike the SM Attack Bikes, they can't be protected by being folded into the same Squad with ablative regular Bikes.

[Guest]

Westrider beat me to it. Attack bike is always solo, so is a bad call if wanting a larger squad, but a good call if MSU is your goal. RW attack bike remains scoring and retains TP homer, so for your uses, it would probably be a better buy than 3 more bikes. The DA FAQ doesn't change this, I just checked.

[Guest]

The tactical has a Plasma pistol and a plasma gun.  I try to keep them close to the Librarian for Prescience.

 

So, Azrael arrives in the pod with the 9x tactical marines. How does the libby get there? Pods only hold 10.

[Last_Bullet]

So, Azrael arrives in the pod with the 9x tactical marines. How does the libby get there? Pods only hold 10.

Oh Terminator armor and comes in with one of the squads (usually an assault cannon squad)

 

I use the Lib from space hulk for Ap 2 soul sucking

[Guest]

Oh Terminator armor and comes in with one of the squads (usually an assault cannon squad)

 

I use the Lib from space hulk for Ap 2 soul sucking

Ah, makes much more sense. For a while, was running my TDA libby with "lion's roar" and found it a good fit for DW Knights. Bascially, on the drop, the unit doesn't want to run to spread out, as it means being lower toughness, so we arrive and plasma cannon a target. Works ok, though always causes second glances from the opponent: It's a combi-plasma cannon....you mean plasma gun?... no I mean plasma cannon....

[Guest]

Another game today, GG league. 1500pts league. I had a very short period to write up the list and pack the models, so I built a small simple one:

(DA)

Azrael (FNP warlord trait)

Libby (TDA, lion's roar, rolled Sunburst)

DW Knights (5)

DW Terms (5, 3x TH/SS, 2x Fists)

Tactical (5, Flakk ML, Combi-MG, MB)

Tactical (5, Flakk ML, Combi-MG, MB)

Scout (5, camo, Flakk ML, Combi-MG, MB)

Scout (5, camo, Flakk ML, Combi-MG, MB)

RW Knights (5, 1x GL, MB)

 

List might have been fine, though certainly on the weak side. Opponent was nasty:

 

Necrons

Lord

Wraiths (2-3)

Scarabs (5)

Warriors (5)

Warriors (5)

Warriors (10)

-Nightscythe

Spyder

Transcendent C'tan (Cosmic fire, heavenly fire, sky of falling stars)

Void Shield Generator (3 voids)

 

My list might have been able to take out the Transcendent C'tan, despite being a weak list, but that VSG was a killer.

 

Anyway, Dawn of War, Big guns never tire, I did go first (deployed first, he failed to sieze).

 

1a DW terms mishapped and were destroyed turn 1. That was first blood. DW Knights also mishapped, opponent placed those in prime hellstorm location. RW knights advanced and knocked out 2/3 void shields. With the rest of the army's shooting, I mananged to destroy the last one. Whirlwind missed.

 

1b DW knights shrugged off Cosmic Fire but RW knights got caught in it two and lost half their squad. RW knights evaded sky of falling stars with 4+ jink, but still lost the second half of their squad. Scarabs forgot to assault. He got 2/3 void shields back.

 

2a DW knights advanced and failed a charge against a c'tan (11" required, but they can't overwatch, so no loss). Lots of inconsequential shooting. I think I may have destroy the void shields again, but no damage to his army.

 

2b His flyer arrived and popped a scout. His c'tan tried again to cosmic fire the DW knights to no effect. Sky of falling stars did very lacking damage to camo scouts in ruins area terrain (went to ground). Scarabs charged a tactical squad, won combat by 4, leaving a single stubborn Ld 10 model alive.

 

3a Immobilized his flyer with a lucky flakk missile pen. DW Knights charged his C'tan with smite mode. Initiative 5 was a killer, lost 3/5 knights to his 8 smash attacks at S9. Smite mode wounded 3 times, but between FNP and 4++ he didn't take any wounds. Tactical squad was wiped.

 

3b Called it here. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been wiped, due to cunning placement of units and objectives, but it was still a total defeat. I did make a bunch of mistakes, and loss is easier to learn from than victory.

 

In terms of list changes, lots for the future, but for general ones:

 

-DW Knights need a TDA chaplain. I keep not doing it and suffering. They need to be able to capitalize fully on use of smite mode.

 

-Lots of scoring options is misleading me in the use of Azrael. I need more shooting than my scoring units can offer.

 

-RW Knights don't work in large squads. I've tried this a few times, they just become a fire magnet.

 

-Those multi-purpose tactical/scout units are too spendy. I love the idea of being prepared for anything, but it just isn't point efficient.

[Last_Bullet]

Yeah I used to run scouts but they don’t seem to do well.  I would really look at a librarian for the Knights.  Prescience works for a round and Chaps only works on the charge, Ld 10 is pretty constant.

 

How did Azreil do?  Or did he do anything?  Hes a ton of points that should be out doing something and he eats basic troops for breakfast!

[Guest]

 

Yeah I used to run scouts but they don’t seem to do well.  I would really look at a librarian for the Knights.  Prescience works for a round and Chaps only works on the charge, Ld 10 is pretty constant.

 

How did Azreil do?  Or did he do anything?  Hes a ton of points that should be out doing something and he eats basic troops for breakfast!

 

Actually, I've had extremely good results with my scouts in most games. Their weak point in the DA codex is that they don't benefit from the otherwise army wide "grim resolve" power. It really only matters in assault. As for the loadout, mine have gotten really excellent results with their bolters instead of sniper rifles. That said, codex SM has scouts for 5pts cheaper with the same build, plus they get beacon access, so likely I'll be taking codex SM allies for my scouts. Still, making them Ld10 via Azrael is pretty impressive.

 

I really want an "unfluffy" scout devastator squad, where I can take 4x Missile launchers with scouts. Would be worth every penny.

 

This is still my 2nd or 3rd game running azrael and I still haven't perfected his use. In this particular game, his Ld10 boost was very useful in keeping my units from fleeing or losing assault. This one ability is amazing when combined with grim resolve making any tactical squad into a tarpit unit so long as they have any surviving members.

[Guest]

Saw a game recently with DA allies in use. They had a Nephlim Jetfighter, like the actual model, which I've been reluctant to buy due to it's high cost. I finally noticed something about it's wing design: They droop down. Not just a little droop either, but enough where a flyer on that base can be within 3" of a PA/TDA model on ground level. With wings counting as hull, but base and stem being discounted for most game aspects, this is significant, as it means that my DA flyers can get close enough to a PFG in order to obtain a 4++. The current model I've been using for a "counts as" cannot do this. I don't think the stormtalon can do this and I'm certain I can't get my vendetta close enough without shortening the stem or putting the PVG on a hill.

 

This does present a newfound value for both the Dark Talon and the Nephlim Jetfighter. As they are alone, the two flyers are highly overpriced, but with a 4++ it certainly merits a revisit.

 

Upon revisit, I do note that the Dark talon "hover strike" ability is not the same thing as hover mode at all. Rather than making the flyer become treated as a skimmer, like with flyers in hover mode, the "hover strike" actually transforms the vehicle's type to a skimmer. For difference, a flyer in hover mode is still a flyer that is treated as a fast skimmer, while a dark talon hover striking is just a skimmer. I'm really not sure why this matters yet, but it is a distinct difference worthy of note. I think there are some abilities/rules that do only affect flyers specifically, so this may have defensive value.

[Guest]

Mentioned this bit a few times, but still no one seems to get that we can do this:

 

Take an inner circle character on a bike and put him is base contact with 2x DW knight models. Congrats, you have a T6 character. If you take sammy on his jetbike, you can deep strike them together and he's still T6.

 

DA trickery....

[Guest]

Another thing just occured to me: Azrael grants Leadership 10 for leadership checks to the entire army. On thing I hadn't considered was that the DW terminators have split fire, so his leadership 10 may be used for the test required to split fire. From 9 to 10 is not great, but it is a difference.