How to take down the Trans Ctan

[Chappy]

Whining about whining is a great part of the internet.

Truth.

[JMGraham]

Whining about whining is a great part of the internet.

Seriously? Whining about whining has to be one of the stupidest wastes of time I can imagine. I can't believe you'd not only waste our time in doing it, but also waste OUR time in making us read it. Jeesh. Get a life.

 

 

Just so we're perfectly clear, that was completely tounge-in-cheek. Mostly, who in their right mind would pass up on an opportunity to whine about whining about whining? Not me. ;) Carry on!

 

[pretre]

Whining about whining about whining. So meta. :)

[Guest]

So, got another unit for C'tan destruction: 10-man Black Knight blob with attached TDA interrogator chappy and GK Stern. Even without smite mode denying armor saves, looking at hammer hand and sanctuary for S8 power mauls and 2++ armor saves. C'tan can't overwatch, being gargantuan, so they can charge and pound in.

 

Using this site,  http://www.mathhammer40k.com/melee/infantry , I've got 2.86 wounds via this unit on the charge without smite mode, but with hammerhand up. Mind you, C'tan swings same time as two characters, and before the unit, so they won't likely be at full strength. With smite mode, jumps to a solid 5.22 wounds against that 5 wound C'tan. Both cases include FNP, despite linked site being unable to add that (multiplied result by two thirds).

 

Still, even without smite mode, their weapons are almost all concussive, so if they go second, even a single unsaved wound has reasonable odds that they will get a second round of combat before the C'tan gets to swing again.

 

Mind you, pretty sure unit is more expensive than the c'tan and relies on being able to assault it.

[AbusePuppy]

The question isn't really "is there any way to kill the C'tan"; there is. It actually doesn't have all that many wounds or all that great a save, so if you can force it to roll, it usually goes down fairly quickly. A unit of GK Terminators with a couple Daemonhammers, for example, will absolutely destroy the C'tan if they get to charge it (presumably with Draigo or a similar character to keep them alive long enough to do so.) There's lots of things that can put the hurt on it in one form or another.

 

The problem is that they are almost always very niche, specialized units that have limited uses against anything other than the C'tan.

[Guest]

The problem is that they are almost always very niche, specialized units that have limited uses against anything other than the C'tan.

Well, those black knights are actually really awesome against most targets, assuming they can reach melee. Obvious issues if they can't, but most units have an optimal range that they sink or swim trying to maintain.

 

The really sad bit, is those black knights cost less than the regular DW terminators. Only a few points, but it's there.

[pretre]

Do you mean death wing knights?

[AbusePuppy]

Yeah, I'm assuming he means DWK, not Black Knights.

 

And DWK, while neat, are not really a very good unit- they're still very expensive and they have to maintain themselves in "please put a blast on me" formation if they want to make full use of their abilities. If they manage to reach combat they're pretty deadly, but not really any more so than any other Terminator (TH/SS and even Tactical Terminators hit just about as hard for a similar price.)

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm assuming he means DWK, not Black Knights.

 

And DWK, while neat, are not really a very good unit- they're still very expensive and they have to maintain themselves in "please put a blast on me" formation if they want to make full use of their abilities. If they manage to reach combat they're pretty deadly, but not really any more so than any other Terminator (TH/SS and even Tactical Terminators hit just about as hard for a similar price.)

Yeah, total fail. I hate having two knight units to keep track of.

 

As for costs, a unit of 5 is 10pts more than a unit of 5 TH/SS terminators.

 

With the toughness increase, I've found it to be a trap ability. They don't really need +1 toughness most of the time. This is especially true because on the DS drop, they can always run because they lack ranged weapons to compete for use in that phase. +1 toughness just isn't enough to make a huge difference against ranged weapons.

 

It is true that if you give them FNP, like via the DA warlord trait table, the bunching them up for higher toughness does have a more practical edge.

 

That said, there is a pretty sweet synergy with using the +1 toughness ability as a bodyguard for a biker character. This is because the +1 toughness is specifically for models with the inner circle rule in b2b with 2+ knights. This means that sammy on his bike, or another biker character, in b2b with two knights is T6. I do suspect that this is why DA have such little eternal warrior access, just one special character (sammy....).

 

The other abilities are more practical. I especially enjoy the hammer of wrath, as it means they have just as many attacks as lightning claw terminators on the charge. I didn't use these for the c'tan, as s4 just doesn't scratch t9.