Guest Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Okay, odd idea, but here it is: Rather than limiting number of detachments, LoWs and such, what if a tourney took it a step further and just made an event specific detachment. Seems like you could really stop a lot of the major issues like this. In example: Example Event Detachment Detachment Restrictions: All models in detachment must share a faction with the warlord or the required HQ, or have no faction. Required: 1 HQ 2 Troops Optional 2 HQ 4 Elites 6 Troops 4 Fast 4 Heavy 1 LoW 5 Non-LoW in the "other" battlefield role 1 Fortification Detachment Special Rules Troops Are objective Secured. Warlord may re-roll warlord trait, but must accept second roll Basically, it's a combined Arms Detachment and an allied detachment in terms of slots. You can fit 5 Imperial knights, but one would have to be the warlord due for them to meet the detachment requirements. They'd still need an HQ and 2 troops. Likewise, if you really wanted an assassin, he'd need to be the warlord, but you could take one (or up to 4, as there are four elites slots). Anyway, that one is just an example to show the potential. Seems like it would allow better control of the meta from a TO standpoint, while not being overly complicated in-game. It is notable that if only allowing the single detachment as above, the up to two factions would be able to mingle, as the allegiance levels only apply to different detachments - though if this was an issue, you could add a further restriction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Well, for one it makes the "minor" factions like Harlequins and Skitarii literally unplayable. It also removes any ability to use multiple factions- and while I may not necessarily be a fan of the idea, it's what the game is now and it's better just to accept that. So I don't really see how this solves any problems at all, unless the problem is "not everyone is playing Eldar." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Well, for one it makes the "minor" factions like Harlequins and Skitarii literally unplayable. It also removes any ability to use multiple factions- and while I may not necessarily be a fan of the idea, it's what the game is now and it's better just to accept that. So I don't really see how this solves any problems at all, unless the problem is "not everyone is playing Eldar." The above is purely an example. That said, the above can certainly play skitarii if one of the skitarii characters is the warlord. I'm not familiar enough with the harly list, but I'd imagine that they are also able to field characters.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Skitarii don't have hqs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Skitarii don't have hqs You are thinking 6th edition where HQs were required for warlords. Warlords just need to be characters, or in the absence of characters, can be any model. Page 124 of the BRB makes this clear. The above, totally example, detachment, would allow a skitarii detachment only if the warlord was a skitarii model. The point isn't the example detachment (it is flawed on purpose). It is just to show that an event could impose a event detachment, rather than having to decide if the various detachment options were balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Our point is you have a required hq. It has nothing to do with warlords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Our point is you have a required hq. It has nothing to do with warlords. Ah. Well, example is allowing up to two factions within the same detachment. Skitarii with the warlord and one other with the HQ slot. Should probably tweak it if ever seriously planning to use the example as anything more than just an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I think his heart is there, it just doesn't work in reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Why go through all this trouble? You can just restrict detachments instead of make up your own stupid rules. This is idiotic. How is one method of restriction more idiotic than the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Here: Present ITC format. 1,850pts Battle Forged armies, only. No Unbound lists. An army may be built using up to two Detachments. An army may not have a duplicate of any Detachment.Note: This includes “Decurion Style” Detachments which are comprised of multiple data slates and Formations. They may not take duplicate Formations within the Detachment, although they make take duplicate Data Slate units within the Detachment if permitted to do so. An allied Detachment may be the same faction as the Primary Detachment. A Detachment may not be included in an army if it is Come the Apocalypse allies with another Detachment in the army. All current source material is allowed, including GW Codexes, Data Slates, Formations, and current Forge World units and army lists which are listed below. Please note, Experimental and Horus Heresy/30K Forge World units are not allowed.Army lists in Imperial Armor 14: The Siege of Vraks: The Death Korps of Krieg and Renegades of Vraks Army lists in Imperial Armor 13: War Machines of the Lost and the Damned: Renegades and Heretics Reference our Imperial Armor Unit Index for the most recent rules for Forge World units. Regardless of Detachments, no more than 1 Fortification and/or 1 Super Heavy/Gargantuan Lord of War may be taken, chosen from the following list of allowed units. If one player has a Super Heavy/Gargantuan LoW and the other does not, the player without can roll on the Escalation Warlord Table and also earns an extra Maelstrom point for every 3 Hull Points/Wounds dealt to the Super Heavy/Gargantuan Creature LoW. ChaosChaos Fellblade Greater Brass Scorpion of Khorne Khorne Lord of Skulls Armies of the ImperiumBaneblade Banehammer Banesword Captain Maximillian Weiseman Cerastus Knights: Acheron, Castigator, Lancer Crassus Armored Assault Carrier Dominus Armored Siege Bombard Doomhammer Gorgon Heavy Transporter Fortress of Arrogance Macharius: Heavy Tank, Vanquisher, Vulcan, Omega Malcador: Heavy Tank, Annihilator, Deffender Marauder Bomber: NOTE: No Hellstorm Bombs may be taken. Marauder Destroyer Minotaur Artillery Tank Stormblade Stormlord Valdor Tank Hunter NecronsObelisk Tessaract Vault OrksKustom Battle Fortress Kill Krusha Tank Kill Blasta Lifta Wagon Stompa Big Mek Stompa NOTE: Big Mek Buzzgob pays full points for his Stompa upgrade, not those listed in his profile. Gargantuan Squiggoth Space Marines Note: No Space marine Lord of War may take the Battle of Kyelek Legacy of Glory Cerastus Knights: Acheron, Castigator, Lancer Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer Fellblade Marauder Bomber: NOTE: No Hellstorm Bombs may be taken. Marauder Destroyer TauOrca Dropship Tiger Shark Fighter Bomber TyranidsHeirodule: Barbed and Scythed FortificationsAll fortification data slates and upgrades from the Stronghold Assault book are legal except the Macro Cannon Aquila Strongpoint and the Vortex Missile Aquila Strongpoint, which are not allowed. No Fortification Networks may be taken Seems like you could get a much more simplified detachment system, and you'd have greater army balance, if instead of allowing players a full range of detachments, you had event specific detachments. The example seemed to derail my topic, so I'll refrain from further examples of my own. The above, more or less, is already an event specific detachment. It limits LoWs, fortifications, and other bits of the list. It has event specific rules restrictions too. Basically, the above ITC is ITC Warhost Detachment Detachment Restrictions: -Detachment may be no more than 1850pts -Only one Fortification may be selected and detachments which require multiple fortifications may not be included. -If a fortification is selected, it may not be an Macro Cannon Aquilla Strongpoint or Vortex Missile Aquilla Strongpoint. -Only one Lord of War may be selected. If a Gargantuan Creature or Super Heavy with the Lord of War Battlefield Role is selected, it may only be one of the following: ChaosChaos Fellblade Greater Brass Scorpion of Khorne Khorne Lord of Skulls Armies of the ImperiumBaneblade Banehammer Banesword Captain Maximillian Weiseman Cerastus Knights: Acheron, Castigator, Lancer Crassus Armored Assault Carrier Dominus Armored Siege Bombard Doomhammer Gorgon Heavy Transporter Fortress of Arrogance Macharius: Heavy Tank, Vanquisher, Vulcan, Omega Malcador: Heavy Tank, Annihilator, Deffender Marauder Bomber: NOTE: No Hellstorm Bombs may be taken. Marauder Destroyer Minotaur Artillery Tank Stormblade Stormlord Valdor Tank Hunter NecronsObelisk Tessaract Vault OrksKustom Battle Fortress Kill Krusha Tank Kill Blasta Lifta Wagon Stompa Big Mek Stompa NOTE: Big Mek Buzzgob pays full points for his Stompa upgrade, not those listed in his profile. Gargantuan Squiggoth Space Marines Note: No Space marine Lord of War may take the Battle of Kyelek Legacy of Glory Cerastus Knights: Acheron, Castigator, Lancer Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer Fellblade Marauder Bomber: NOTE: No Hellstorm Bombs may be taken. Marauder Destroyer TauOrca Dropship Tiger Shark Fighter Bomber TyranidsHeirodule: Barbed and Scythed -Detachments may not be come the apocalypse allies with each other. Required: 1 Detachment Optional 1 Detachment (may not include a duplicate detachment type as the required detachment) Detachment Special Rules Escalation: If the opposing army includes a Gargantuan Creature or Super Heavy with the Lord of War Battlefield Role, and this army does not, then the warlord of this ITC Warhost Detachment may roll on the Escalation Warlord Traits table instead of the normal warlord traits tables available and your army will gain an extra maelstrom victory point for every 3 hullpoints/wounds dealt to the opponent's Lord of War. Differing Factions: Detachments within this Formation detachment are considered separate detachments allied together with regards to allegiance levels and warlord traits. There are a few differences, but they're basically the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 How is one method of restriction more idiotic than the other? Not to echo the call of "idiotic" (because I think it's rather inflammatory), but the limiting detachments is more functional because it uses the rules as they are presented in the books, but with a relatively small addition. Your system, to contrast, has to balance itself against all current and future detachments and factions (such as Skitarii having no HQs or similar oddities.) It also leaves no room for unique detachment bonuses, which many armies (such as GK) rely on and can add some interest to the game, not to mention things like formations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skkipper Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Orks won in Spokane last weekend. Sure there were some restrictions in play but when orks with their book can win any army can win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_devil Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 What was the ork list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skkipper Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Ork horde Zhadsnark 'Da Rippa' 150 Warboss: Da Lucky Stikk; power klaw; warbike 135 Painboy: grot orderly; warbike 80 14 Warbikerz: Boss Nob (power klaw) 287 3 Warbikerz 54 3 Warbikerz 54 3 Warbikerz 54 Great Waaagh! Big Mek: Mega Force Field; killsaw; warbike 165 Warboss: Big Bosspole; power klaw; warbike 130 10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35 10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35 8 Tankbustas 104 • Trukk 30 8 Tankbustas 104 • Trukk 30 8 Tankbustas 104 • Trukk 30 8 Tankbustas 104 • Trukk 30 8 Tankbustas 104 • Trukk 30 1,849 points 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Wow. Who ran the list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skkipper Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Chuck Arnett ran the orks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgosaurusrex Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 That's a very cool looking Ork list. Glad to see Orks win some games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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