4 tyranid List Need only 1.. please vote

[WestRider]

I wasn't answering because I figured I could be seen as biased. List 1 seems to have the most raw power to me. List 2 is the one I would likely have the most trouble dealing with, since I have basically no answer to Spore Mines other than jumping on them. List 3 is the one I'd most like to play against, since with the Haruspex, Toxicrene, and Shrikes, we'd both be looking to mix it up in CC.

[Guest]

Forgot about the ap- on the hammer.

 

As for the carn, it's the closest TMC equivalent to a dreadnought. Doesn't really seem fair to compare a dread to the other TMCs, as those are just too different.

Was on the cell. Short answers only...to elaborate:

 

First, those Dreads in the SM codex and the DA codex are the only ones with 4 base attacks. The BA Furioso Dread (2 arms) has only 2 base attacks (3 from 2 arms). That BA DC dread has 4 attacks (3 base and 2 arms), though it's also an oddity for marine dreads.

 

That 3++ dread you mentioned from the SW book has only 2 attacks, and the weapons it has aren't paired, so it has only 2 attacks (axe is specialist while shield isn't). The GK dread also has only 2 attacks base. Those FW Contemptor dreads are 2 attacks base for most of them. That BA libby dread also has 2 weapon arms that can't be paired, so has only 2 attacks.

 

Stock SM Dreadnought and the Carnifex are very similar units in function. Those two compare well. I do think the tyranid lack of decent transports for MCs leaves the Dreadnought in a better position, though that isn't really an issue with either unit.

 

That Mawloc is an oddity even in the tyranid codex. It does have 6 wounds as opposed to the fexen 4, so it would likely get 2 full assault phases for it to die to a SM dread, without FNP, could probably last a third assault phase with FNP. But that mawloc really isn't comparable to a dread, they are just too different in function.

 

Though I will note that you commented about the lack of WS on the TMCs vs the SM dreads. This is true, but SM don't have a lot of ways to lower the enemy WS, while the tyranid Paroxysm would very much solve this with much issue.

[WestRider]

That 3++ dread you mentioned from the SW book has only 2 attacks, and the weapons it has aren't paired, so it has only 2 attacks (axe is specialist while shield isn't).

 

Neither of those Dread Weapons is Specialist. I just looked it up. The Axe is Master-Crafted, which helps, too.

[Guest]

Neither of those Dread Weapons is Specialist. I just looked it up. The Axe is Master-Crafted, which helps, too.

You are correct. Was getting them confused.

 

3++ dread shield is S: User, while the axe is S 2x. Both are melee weapons.

 

BA force Halberd is non-specialist, while power fist is specialist, but both are S2x....

[Guest]

Hey, have you tried the Haruspex? Looks pretty solid on paper for vehicle destruction.

[Talonwinter]

Yes it is good vs pods and tanks. Vs walkers it is ok but weapon skill 3 and I-3 hurt. It should have aone more attack to make it work. I got blinded by a nurgle walker and died last night which sucked. It just need a few tweeks to make it a good unit. I price drop wouldn't hurt either.

[Guest]

Yes it is good vs pods and tanks. Vs walkers it is ok but weapon skill 3 and I-3 hurt. It should have aone more attack to make it work. I got blinded by a nurgle walker and died last night which sucked. It just need a few tweeks to make it a good unit. I price drop wouldn't hurt either.

3 attacks base. S7 melee (+1 for crushing claws) with armorbane, and you really need more attacks? With this model, I'd seriously consider adrenal glands, as S8 melee would ID marines.

 

Not sure how a nurgle walker is blinding you, but blinding is an annoying one for those low initiative tyranids. Though your intiative 3 gives you a 50% chance to succeed, which is better than many other bugs....

 

I do think Paroxysm (?spelling) is a pretty solid psychic power to make those enemy walkers more manageable via your tyranids.

[Guest]

Been thinking about those wraith knights. Probably not a points-viable solution, but you could do this:

 

HQ Hive Tyrant (Ymgarl Factor, Reaper of Obliterax, Adrenal Glands, Scything Talons, and Wings) 295pts

 

On the charge, you'd be S9 and swinging at Iniative 8 with every attack dealing instant death 6s (ID does D3 wounds to GCs and denies their FNP). Don't know if you could actually kill a wraithknight this way, but it's closest to a single unit solution I can think of.

 

Mind you, killing a 295pt unit with another 295pt unit isn't really very impressive. You'd also be swinging at the same imitative, so this would very much be a one-hit wonder against a Wraithknight.

 

The only other option, would be to charge with a harpy and a carnifex brood at the same time. Harpy would reduce their initiative to where the fexen would get to swing. Would probably need paroxysm in there too, just to get their WS to more manageable numbers for the low WS fexen.

 

Beyond those, all the options I can think of revolve around either spending many times more points than the wraith knight is worth, or use non-tyranid buildings (like the vortex aquilla) which tyranid players are often very opposed to fielding.

[Lord Hanaur]

He could if huis list wasn't locked in.  =)

 

Lists were due on Saturday from those who have already registered.

[Guest]

He could if huis list wasn't locked in.  =)

 

Lists were due on Saturday from those who have already registered.

Which one did he pick?

[AbusePuppy]

Which one did he pick?

 

He made another thread that has his finalized list in it.

 

 

Been thinking about those wraith knights. Probably not a points-viable solution, but you could do this:

 

HQ Hive Tyrant (Ymgarl Factor, Reaper of Obliterax, Adrenal Glands, Scything Talons, and Wings) 295pts

 

On the charge, you'd be S9 and swinging at Iniative 8 with every attack dealing instant death 6s (ID does D3 wounds to GCs and denies their FNP). Don't know if you could actually kill a wraithknight this way, but it's closest to a single unit solution I can think of.

 

Mind you, killing a 295pt unit with another 295pt unit isn't really very impressive. You'd also be swinging at the same imitative, so this would very much be a one-hit wonder against a Wraithknight.

 

Also worth noting that the Tyrant lacks grenades (meaning it will strike after if the WK is in cover, which they often are) and will fare very poorly against a WK equipped with the Str D melee weapon. And, of course, it's still vulnerable to Stomp, has no invuln, and is generally pretty fragile for its cost (as it needs to stay in Glide mode in order to be able to assault.)

[Lord Hanaur]

3 attacks base. S7 melee (+1 for crushing claws) with armorbane, and you really need more attacks? With this model, I'd seriously consider adrenal glands, as S8 melee would ID marines.

 

Not sure how a nurgle walker is blinding you, but blinding is an annoying one for those low initiative tyranids. Though your intiative 3 gives you a 50% chance to succeed, which is better than many other bugs....

 

I do think Paroxysm (?spelling) is a pretty solid psychic power to make those enemy walkers more manageable via your tyranids.

I got screwed by Paroxysm in a recent game!  Hmm...  Who was I playing...  That power really helps.  It helps just as much when you can re-roll for 5's, but point is, you HAVE to.  

 

Paroxysm was really good in the game i played.  =)

[Guest]

Also worth noting that the Tyrant lacks grenades (meaning it will strike after if the WK is in cover, which they often are) and will fare very poorly against a WK equipped with the Str D melee weapon. And, of course, it's still vulnerable to Stomp, has no invuln, and is generally pretty fragile for its cost (as it needs to stay in Glide mode in order to be able to assault.)

Totally agree on all points.

 

I don't really think the tyranids are properly equipped for any of their single units to solo kill a wraith knight. I was posting more a "it could be done" comment, but I agree, it would be very iffy.

 

Though in regards to receiving blows, the entire idea is that the hive tyrant attempt an all or nothing assault.

 

Math wise, it's still very iffy.

 

I mean, assuming you had the charge and assuming he wasn't in cover or otherwise buffed. You'd have 6 swings on the charge (4 base, 2 melee weapons, and the charge). With swiftstrike, you'd be I:8, which beats the wraithknight's I5. 3s to hit, so 4 hits, Of those you'd wound on 3s (adrenal glancd+ymgarl factor+reaper sword) 2.66 wounds, with rerolls due to shred (Reaper sword) +.88 wounds, so like 3.5 wounds. Odds should be about 1 in 4 that any of those wounds are 6s, so very iffy if the ID effect happens. Anyway, 3.5 then meet the FNP, which makes them about 1 wound. And that assumes no 5++.

 

Hmmm...still sucky odds. That said, if they get that 6 and gain ID, then you'd do d3 wounds with each one that deny the FNP.

 

So maybe you go with less strength to play the odds with shred and ID on 6s....hmmm.

 

Okay, so drop adrenal glands for Old Adversary and use Ymgarl factor for +1 attack (+5pts, 300pts).

 

So 7 attacks on the charge. Hit on 3s, 4.33 hits. Reroll 1s, 1.33 re-roll and 0.88 extra hits, for 5.11 hits. 5s to wound, 6s to ID. 1.70 wound, with 0.85 causing ID. With re-rolls due to shred, 1.12 extra wounds, with 0,56 causing ID. So roughly 1.41 ID and 1.41 normal wounds. If we assume the D3 result is 2 wounds, then it does 2.82 wounds to the wraithknight which deny armor and FNP, with the other's doing neglible damage....That's better than before, but still lacking.

 

Though the playing the odds for ID has me thinking.

 

Swarm lord, his Initiative 6 swings first. 6 swings on the charge (4 base, 2 melee, charge) 4 hit. He uses Swarm leader to give him Monster Hunter, which gives him effectively shred against MCs (which includes GCs). He needs 6s to wound being S6 against the enemy T8. 0.66 wound, +.55 with re-rolls, so about 1.11 wounds. These inflict ID, so 2.22 wounds which deny armor and FNP (if we assume d3=2). Unlike the Tyrant, he's got a 4++ (and double +1 WS over the wraithknight).

 

I do understand that the swarmlord is very unlikely to ever reach melee.... and is especially vulnerable to shooting.

[Talonwinter]

One option is an unit of 4 to 5 shrikes with at lest 2 with Boneswords the rest with rending claws. Of course you have to have toxin sax, Adrenal glands, and assault grenade thing( Cant remember the name). The unit is expensive but has a good chance of getting the charge and doing some good damage if not just killing it out right.

 

 

ID gets ride of the FNP.

[Guest]

One option is an unit of 4 to 5 shrikes with at lest 2 with Boneswords the rest with rending claws. Of course you have to have toxin sax, Adrenal glands, and assault grenade thing( Cant remember the name). The unit is expensive but has a good chance of getting the charge and doing some good damage if not just killing it out right.

 

 

ID gets ride of the FNP.

Toxin sacs are kinda useless here, as poisoned weapons only wound GCs on 6s. And then it has 3+ armor and 5+ FNP.

 

If needing 6s anyway, logic was to use rending, as those 6s will at least deny armor saves. Still, not really a solution.

[galahad911]

Toxin sacs are kinda useless here, as poisoned weapons only wound GCs on 6s. And then it has 3+ armor and 5+ FNP.

 

If needing 6s anyway, logic was to use rending, as those 6s will at least deny armor saves. Still, not really a solution.

 

The boneswords are ap3, but can't wound at except on the charge because of insufficient strength. So, he does need the toxins. And no it doesn't get armor, and if he wounds at all it's on a 6 which would then be ID. So no FnP and d3 more wounds. 

 

It's not a terrible idea really, but I would generally just advise a Tyranid player to play around the damn thing, try your best to mitigate the damage it can do and kill everything else.

[AbusePuppy]

Horribly enough, Genestealers are a Tyranid player's best solution to a Wraithknight. Sadly, they are also the Tyranid player's solution to winning any matches against other units or players, so they're a bit of a non-starter.

[Guest]

The boneswords are ap3, but can't wound at except on the charge because of insufficient strength. So, he does need the toxins. And no it doesn't get armor, and if he wounds at all it's on a 6 which would then be ID. So no FnP and d3 more wounds. 

 

It's not a terrible idea really, but I would generally just advise a Tyranid player to play around the damn thing, try your best to mitigate the damage it can do and kill everything else.

Sorry, was looking the swarm lord's bone sabres, and just thought they'd also be ap2...Should have known.

 

Horribly enough, Genestealers are a Tyranid player's best solution to a Wraithknight. Sadly, they are also the Tyranid player's solution to winning any matches against other units or players, so they're a bit of a non-starter.

I looked into that. It's just a matter of points. Even if you can get to assault at full strength, you require more points in genestealers to kill the one wraith knight.

 

21 genestealers is 294pts. On the charge, they have 63 attacks. They hit on 3s, so 42 hits, and wound via rending, on 6s. 7 wounds at ap2. Add in FNP, and that's 4.66 unsaved wounds (even less if knight has an invulnerable save).

 

If Eldar player isn't psyker heavy (I know, doubtful), Warpblast Zoans would work. You'd really have to spam them, but those are S10 ap2 with shooting attacks.