The "Filth" of AoS

[Threejacks]

So what kind of filth do you all think exists in the game?

 

Having just noticed that the FW Mournghoul is a fairly inexpensive model,im thinking of picking up a couple and adding them to my Nagash-mash:)

[alindahl]

Since you brought it up, the Mourngul is definitely pretty filthy.  Super hard to hit, lots of attacks, regeneration and fear causing... Mortal wounds aren't even a good answer because they have a ward.  What do you even do to stop them? haha

 

Since we were talking about them on the other thread, Stonehorns are also pretty darn filthy.  They get to run and charge in the same turn (in fact the rules say the MUST charge), they do D6 wounds on a successful charge, and they halve all the wounds they take.  

 

Vermin Lord Deceiver's Skitterleap ability... A casting value of THREE for teleports around the field of a 12 wound Hero/Wizard/Monster.  

 

Nagash is also pretty filthy.  Look at all those delicious spells!  But he's way too cool to talk trash about haha.  There has to be some crazy powerful models (plus his SCGT cost is 55)

 

Another filthy thing is how cheap the Mighty Lord of Khorne (5 per SCGT) is for such a powerful ability.  In theory, he could give 1 wound to Nagash and there is a 33% chance Nagash would be slain.  That's just too dirty.

[Malakithe]

Kroak bomb, rippers, most seraphon battalions lol nagash, brotherhood of the great bolts

 

That's all I can think of from my limited experience

[alindahl]

Speaking of Seraphon, Saurus Guard + Eternity Warden + Skink Priest = insane synergy

[Malakithe]

Have you seen the Eternal Starhost? It's just the warden plus 3 units of guard. It's the best tanky battalion in the game. Only thing they don't handle well is mortal wounds spam

[alindahl]

Have you seen the Eternal Starhost? It's just the warden plus 3 units of guard. It's the best tanky battalion in the game. Only thing they don't handle well is mortal wounds spam

I haven't seen that one yet.  What are the battalion buffs?

 

Yeah I'm not aware of any Seraphon units with buffs against mortal wounds.  Although I think there are other options in the Order alliance.  The Luminark of Hysh for example has Aura of Protection which wards all wounds and mortal wounds on a 6+.  That does sound like a pretty fun combo actually...

[Malakithe]

I don't remember the buffs but I can probably Google it easy enough

 

The Bastiladon actually has a mortal wound save on a 4+ I think. Slap a mystic shield on it and you got the best tank in the game

[alindahl]

Just looked it up

 

+1 save for guard when within 10" of Warden

 

Polearm damage increased to D3 if there was no move or charge that turn

 

...

So does that +1 to save stack with the Guard's innate +1 for being near a hero?  I don't see why not.  That's a 2+ save roll!  Rerollable if you have a skink priest nearby with prayers.

 

And D3 damage plus extra attacks for the Guard close to the Warden!

 

And only 60 points of SCGT assuming 15 guard in each unit.

 

*drooling commences*

[Malakithe]

Yep plus the wardens ability too. Adds attacks...yeah they hit hard. 3 attacks each. Plus whatever supporting stuff you toss in. A Slann, Bastilidons, Chameleon skinks...

[Threejacks]

With the addition of Blue and Brimstone Horrors,It sure adds alot of filth to Tzeench.

 

10 Pink Horrors is essentially 50 wounds now...and the way the splitting works I think its going to be alot more effective than Death`s Skeleton hordes with banner regen,mainly due to the ability in split to form a new unit within 6" of the old one.Plus the horrors have shooting attacks.

Also once the Pinks are all killed off then they can be resummoned and start the whole process over again.

 

The way im reading it,the splitting happens at the end of the phase in which the original models were removed, so even if the entire unit is wiped out in say the combat phase,the new unit will still be placed within 6" of the last model removed with no noted restriction as to how close to enemy models to be placed.This leads to pretty much at least 3 turns of tarpit no matter what ends up facing them at the start.Now of course shooting may have an effect on this with the possibility of being removed in the shooting phase,but thats still alot of shooting to do so.

 

So..time to look for more Blue and Brimstone Horrors:)

[alindahl]

What's everyone's opinion on artillery? I've been watching a few battle reports with dwarf cannons and organ guns and they seem crazy overpowered. Thoughts? They are even filthier since they are allowed to shoot even when they are in close combat.

 

And Three jacks, I was thinking that horrors would be crazy good now. This is also an interesting way for them to introduce an update to the game play and rules without releasing new war scrolls.

[Threejacks]

Yeah arty can be a pain,but many of them have a minimum range,and now that the rules have been clarified about how to deal wounds to the units,the attacker can choose either crew or gun to direct attacks against.

 

They are still not as OPed as they were in 8th edition though..

[Don't Panic]

lol i mean i only played 2 games of AoS buuuuuut basically blew my opponents off the board... And they were good players too, it was just that stupid.  Its waaaaaay worse than 8th.  WAAAAAAY worse(trust me im an experienced dwarf player).  Because you can have an engineer work multiple guns which isnt possible in 8th. Also you can position things really cheesy.  And the terrible guns are way better.  Like flame cannons are hilariously good compared to 8th where they really were situationally good.  Canons are still stupid(very good chance of doing 2d6 mortal wounds with an engineer near) and 36 inches is not limited in range in AoS lol.  Organ guns i think are a bit more toned down, but still pretty decent(very much so like 8th and just completely random in damage output).  I definitely feel the cheeseball tactics with gunlines got way worse in AoS than it ever was in 8th.  I mean you had core and some pretty steep restrictions in 8th.  with aos, without actual regulations you can just do 8 artillery pieces, 2 engineers and a line of slayers with drakes behind and laugh as you blow everything off the board and then whatever gets close gets tied in with slayers hacking it to pieces as you shoot them to death with double shooting irondrakes sitting there and laughing. 

 

I think artillery might seem OP pending on what you played as 8th was quite rock paper scissors for artillery lists as they play very much so in that way.  For example, a skilled wood elf player beats the crap out of artillery lists lol.  While beastmen are absolutely screwed hahaha and I did quite well against the other elves with artillery lists.  WoC are in dire straights as well.  While daemons and undead could do great or bad pending on what type of list they bring(raising list for undead would do great and DoC a fast list with many beasts of nurgle will crush dwarf gunlines).  I think its also probably the same for AoS as its probably list dependent, but the fact they just straight up deal incredible damage to anything within 24 inches AND CAN FIRE INTO COMBAT(unless thats been FAQd since i last looked at rules 6+ months ago haha), makes them imo a bit more well-rounded than they were in 8th.  That saying, as obnoxious as gunlines are id rather face them than some other things in AoS. Like Nagash... ha, i hate that 'big bad swear word'

[Threejacks]

Not sure when you played your "two games of AoS" but in recent months gunlines dont favor well in comped AoS,especially the "old world" type.

 

Uncomped play,certainly an all shooting list will be tough,,but in that case I would still say that matching up against each gun with an Ogor Ttusk would result in the wrecking of the gunline..spam is spam right?

 

 

Teleporting face smashers,monster mashes,summoning units into players faces...these are just some of the things that ruin gunlines in comped AoS play.And now a player can choose to have their higher rend shooting be directed at the machine instead of letting the target player choose to use the crew to soak up the shot(s),or visa versa with the non rending shooting.

 

That being said,yes it is smart to have some long ranged capability in your list.And there are the armies that have good synergy.But as far as I could tell,gunlines didnt place well at the SCGT.

[alindahl]

I agree. In uncomped play people can bring silly things and blow others off the board, but no one would expect the semblance of a serious game if they are choosing to play uncomped. Most comp systems have limits to the number of warmachines and with so many ways to deal with them they aren't the greatest thing to try and spam. That being said I was still a bit surprised at their SCGT cost. I thought it would be higher. But I guess we can look at the top players and since none have artillery it goes to show they aren't the gaurunteed blast fest we see in uncomped play.

 

The battle reports I have watched where the artillery blew the faces off were notable in that the opposing armies didn't bring anything to deal the artillery, they just took it in the face and expected their lines to hold.

 

I think artillery lines are slightly OP in that they force someone's hand in that they MUST deal with them and early, whereas other tactics are not no forceful in their presence. But as long as someone does have something to deal with them they aren't so terrifying.

[alindahl]

I've been watching some battle reports on Youtube by "Miniwargaming.com" so here are a couple situations to ponder:

 

A battle report in which I think the artillery was king and the opponent had nothing to deal with it and was subsequently destroyed (I think the Stormcast player made several other mistakes as well whereas the dwarves played solidly):

https://youtu.be/Fv1HdA0jQpY

 

A battle report between Empire and High elves in which the artillery was of almost no consequence, despite the fact the artillery was unreachable by all by one unit of the High Elves, there were three pieces and an engineer.  (To be fair nothing seemed to go right for the Empire player in this game haha):

https://youtu.be/4ELOcWQB3GY

[Malakithe]

As a new stormcast player my solution would be teleport in, hope i get a charge off, then either tie them up or kill them outright

[Steel Angel]

Vexillor is your best bet for gun lines

[alindahl]

Vexillor is your best bet for gun lines

Agreed, along with the other "Deep Strike" sort of battle formations that the Stormcast have.  Although many of them require a lucky charge in order to get units into combat right away.

 

Since we are on the topic, what are some ways people have found to deal with artillery lines in other factions? 

 

One that pops to mind for Seraphon is Chameleon Skinks.  A healthy unit of them should be able to clear out a piece of artillery real quick. 

[Steel Angel]

That why you should have at least 1 gryphhound to counter camoskins they're nasty. Love the look on opponents face when they set them down near a gunline with one

[alindahl]

Has anyone looked at the Warscroll for the Dread Suarian very closely?  If I am reading it right, if a unit near the dread saurian takes a battleshock test their bravery is set to -2?  

 

The wording is weird and not conducive with other warscrolls which reduce bravery.  Usually the wording for those that reduce bravery is "subtract 1 from that units bravery".  The wording on the dread Saurian makes me think that it doesn't matter what the unit's bravery is originally, if they are close to a dread saurian, it IS -2.

 

If that is true then battleshock tests around a Dread Saurian would be horrifying.  Let's say a unit loses 1 model, they roll a 4 for battleshock... and they would lose 7 more due to battleshock??

 

Thoughts?  SCGT has a crazy high value for a Dread Saurian.

[Malakithe]

That's cuz it's massive lol