New list for Portland ITC in June

[Talonwinter]

Great wolf detachment

 

lvl 2 Libby on bike
Servitor
Servitor
3 drop pods

Lvl 1 Libby on bike
Servitor
Servitor
5x thunderwolves with 5 Storm shields, 2 Power Fist, 1 Wolf Claw

5x thunderwolves with 5 Storm shields, 2 Power Fist, 1 Wolf Claw
VSG with 3 shields.
 

Murderpack

Wulfen with 5 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield

Wulfen with 5 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield

Wulfen with 2 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield, 2 with great axe and auto gun, 1 Normal guy

 

The army has 30% chance of getting a 24 inch move rate with the wolves.

 

2 units of wulfen are dropping turn one where I want them. Letting me box my opponent where I want him most times.

 

Turn one I am Assaulting with the thunderwolves( depends on deployment type.) or setting up a turn charge with 4 nasty units.

 

If I don’t make a turn one assault. My opponents faces a hard choice in what to kill first as all 4 options are brutal.

 

So what do you think?

[pretre]

Looks fun. Keep in mind that VSG may get nerfed soon by the GW FAQ though.

[Talonwinter]

True but i figue not for this tournament.

[AbusePuppy]

The problem you're gonna run into is that none of your units are THAT tough. T4/3++/FNP will shrug off a decent number of wounds, but it won't be that hard for S5+ weapons to grind them down and you really don't have that many models. Killing the Wulfen off quickly eliminates your movement bonuses and armies that play with reserve strategies are going to be able to divide/avoid you pretty easily. You'll tear static gunlines to pieces, but you don't usually see those ranking very highly in tournaments. The Thunderwolves are really not much tougher against most things (T5 vaguely balances lack of FNP) but will go down quite quick once people focus fire on them. There are a LOT of anti-infantry weapons out there, from Tau to Eldar to Renegades to Knights and more and all of them are going to do a number on you.

 

Lacking the Librarius Conclave is really going to limit your defensive options a lot- the SW casters just can't get the same good powers for the most part (especially Invisibility, Endurance, and Shrouding) and are less reliable for getting off spells.

 

I don't think the VSG is doing a lot for you- you've already got the 3++ saves to shrug Grav wounds, and it's not like you'll be inside of its radius any turn but the first. I would be much more worried about mobile units that can stay away from you and flyers, which you have no way to do anything meaningful to at all.

 

Also, you aren't going to get turn 1 charges unless you get lucky and roll the double-move power against someone who wasn't expecting it or if the other guy is just bad and doesn't deploy to get away from you. It will be very hard for people to avoid turn 2 charges from at least some of your units, but turn 1 is really optimistic.

[Talonwinter]

The problem you're gonna run into is that none of your units are THAT tough. T4/3++/FNP will shrug off a decent number of wounds, but it won't be that hard for S5+ weapons to grind them down and you really don't have that many models. Killing the Wulfen off quickly eliminates your movement bonuses and armies that play with reserve strategies are going to be able to divide/avoid you pretty easily. You'll tear static gunlines to pieces, but you don't usually see those ranking very highly in tournaments. The Thunderwolves are really not much tougher against most things (T5 vaguely balances lack of FNP) but will go down quite quick once people focus fire on them. There are a LOT of anti-infantry weapons out there, from Tau to Eldar to Renegades to Knights and more and all of them are going to do a number on you.

 

Lacking the Librarius Conclave is really going to limit your defensive options a lot- the SW casters just can't get the same good powers for the most part (especially Invisibility, Endurance, and Shrouding) and are less reliable for getting off spells.

 

I don't think the VSG is doing a lot for you- you've already got the 3++ saves to shrug Grav wounds, and it's not like you'll be inside of its radius any turn but the first. I would be much more worried about mobile units that can stay away from you and flyers, which you have no way to do anything meaningful to at all.

 

Also, you aren't going to get turn 1 charges unless you get lucky and roll the double-move power against someone who wasn't expecting it or if the other guy is just bad and doesn't deploy to get away from you. It will be very hard for people to avoid turn 2 charges from at least some of your units, but turn 1 is really optimistic.

You make some valid points.. Failing wounds will always be a issue with this type of army. This is a elite army with few models and wounds.

 

The VSG is for first turn protection from grave drop and heavy grave armies. Intel the change the ruling it is very good at doing that.

 

 

It also works really well at keeping the servitors alive later in game. Plus it is scoring in my back field since most of my units are ringing forward. Its not a wasted addition.

 

As for first turn charges having 33% chance to get up 36 inch charge range is pretty good. It makes planning what my army is going to do harder for my opponent than for me.

 

 

Yes I can go with the Death Pack and have a crazy range on it and powerful character. But I lose the ability and the number of attack the two units can put out.

 

 

By doing ThunderDome you have extremely powerful unit that loses if some one gets lucky with stomps. Also going second can lose you the games as well to shooting army's not having to make any choices as what to shoot. The one big unit that has not powered up yet.

 

 

My list makes you have to drop the shield and then you must pick which unit to go after. The Wulfen unit that will allow possible crazy movement or the thunder wolf units. I still get the shield protection turn 2 most of the time as people have not dropped it first round.

 

 

As for the Conclave. This is a Space wolf list not a Battle Brother list. I personally feel the Conclave is a broken formation that needs to be nerfed or banned in the ITC. I will not play with it and it doesn't fit my list. I know people play the super friends list but I don't play then.

 

 

Space wolves can't use Invisibility normally so I am use to not using it. Endurance is nice but I like the new power Veil of Time better. Getting a 3++ reroll is better then FNP. As for getting them off vs most armies it is not a big issue. People either go big with powers of have next to none. Either way it is feast or famine with our they get off.

 

 

ITC wants to stop turn one charging as it is with their nerf to the electrostatic power from fulmination. In their view it is too over powered because of the Conclave making it too easy to cast.

 

 

For me this is a little hypocritical in that shooting armies can destroy whole armies with shooting before you can even get in to assault. SO it seam it would be fair if a. assault army could return the favorer. Who is going first has always been a big part of this game.

 

 

Setting up turn two charges will have to work..

 

 

It is funny that people seam to feel a 12 inch movement, weapon skill 5, toughness 5, strength 5, 3++ save is a week choice. Very few people run thunder wolves themselves. They do the character instead that way they have units that can split off as needed. For the cost of two kitted out guys you can get 6 thunder wolves kitted out as well with a lot more attacks coming out of the unit. The 2+ armor saves are good that's for sure. But you are a lot more reliant on the Conclave to keep you alive as you have even less models on the table. Well that's my View of it.

 

 

I have played they other way, but it is not my style to play with multi codex's. I want to play space wolves not space friends.

[Lord Hanaur]

This list is strong.  I have seen it wielded and it is pretty impressive.  He won a tournament this last weekend playing it and even after making a grievous tactical msitake in the last round, he still managed to smash a Tau Empires face in.  

 

I have a lot of respect for the list.  minor tweaks would be a matter of personal taste in strategy more than anything.

 

I do recommend facing the toughest of the tough lists just to stress it out and see how it does.

[pretre]

It's not that those things are weak. It's that you pay a lot of points to get those things and those points aren't always worth it. :) Trust me, I run a lot of thunderwolves.

[Guest]

I think heavy flyer armies would be a real problem for this list. Just that most of the list hinges on being able to assault things and the flyers can't be assaulted. Still, might be durable enough to ignore the flyers long enough to deny them a way to win.

[Lord Hanaur]

Well we have the players to test that theory here...

[Guest]

I am curious how the servitors fit into everything. Are they just for holding objectives?

[pretre]

I am curious how the servitors fit into everything. Are they just for holding objectives?

They are required slots for Champions of the Great Wolf.

[Lord Hanaur]

I am curious how the servitors fit into everything. Are they just for holding objectives?

yeaqh they just hide and gank objective points while he presses the enemy nd taslks them out of caring about servitors

[Talonwinter]

TV

I am curious how the servitors fit into everything. Are they just for holding objectives?

I have to take them for the detachment. I put one in a drop pod that I can make the enemy have to go take care of in their deployment Zone. 4 line breaker. Or a table corner. Also by hiding the other three of my deployment Zone I get to make my opponent have to spread out to kill all of them. I hide one of them by the vsg. I hide the other two in places that have difficult line of sight. That way my opponent has 2 be put out of position to be able to take them out from range. With those models I have 4 units scoring in my backfield 4 Maelstrom missions.

With the speed and overall attack power of my army people tend to focus on the killing units first and by the time they realize the game is almost over they do not have the means to get to all my small scoring units that are scattered around the field.

 

I expect more experienced players to have a concept of what this list can do. But I have found that even veteran players are caught off guard at times at the speed that the units can be capable of. That said I have won several games with nothing but the void Shield generator and two servitors left on the table.

 

This list is I guess a counter meta list, I think. If not I'm not sure what is.

[AbusePuppy]

Everyone thinks their list is a "counter-meta" list, just like everyone thinks that their own list is very tactical and complex while other people's lists are just point-and-click netlists.

[Guest]

Everyone thinks their list is a "counter-meta" list, just like everyone thinks that their own list is very tactical and complex while other people's lists are just point-and-click netlists.

Everyone, huh? I'm pretty sure I'm a member of "everyone." So your saying that I should refer to my lists as 'counter-meta' and refer to other people's lists as 'point-and-click netlists'?

 

So glad I have you, Abuse Puppy, to keep me hip to the new lingo.

 

[Lord Hanaur]

Everyone thinks their list is a "counter-meta" list, just like everyone thinks that their own list is very tactical and complex while other people's lists are just point-and-click netlists.

Ironic.  I love it.

[Talonwinter]

You like to use broad statements with saying "everyone this or that".

 

Let’s see here. Not everyone tries to make a counter meta list. Most people don't. From what I see most people make list from units they like to play with.

 

As for net lists. If people are using them then they are not making counter-meta list themselves either.

 

The meta is all about mass shooting, Big single unit Deathstars with the conclave or mass cheap MSU.

 

I don't know... Seems to me my list doesn't fit the meta in anyway.

 

As for a net list, I am the only one running a list like this that I have ever seen. In fact everyone says the list is not good and Thunderdome with conclave is better.

 

Calling my list a net list..? Come on really..

 

My list is not very tactical or complex. It wants to get to you and assault. It has good to great movement in all of the attack units. The cheapest of those units are 250 points.

 

My support units are 10 points each and die to sneezing at them.

 

I playing a army that gets no free points, no powers on a 2+, and is using a single codex. Wow sounds like I am playing Tyranids.

 

15 units with ten of those being 10 model units. Giving me 35 models on the table. So low model count.

 

So mid to hi kill points. I will lose big game hunter most likely, as my units are expensive.

 

Like any elite army if my saves go bad I can lose real fast..

 

If I wanted to play boring net list…. This is really not the way to go.

 

Not everyone fits your statements.

[Guest]

Personally, I'm bored with seeing thunderwolves at every tournament I visit. I don't think the models are that impressive, or at least the ones I've seen haven't been. Pretre's comical wolf-surfers may be an exception, but they aren't really the thunderwolf models.

 

Mind you, this has nothing to do with how viable they are in game, just comments of a person that observes tournaments.

[pretre]

Sure they are...

[Lord Hanaur]

Personally, I'm bored with seeing thunderwolves at every tournament I visit. I don't think the models are that impressive, or at least the ones I've seen haven't been. Pretre's comical wolf-surfers may be an exception, but they aren't really the thunderwolf models.

 

Mind you, this has nothing to do with how viable they are in game, just comments of a person that observes tournaments.

I love the way the Thunderwolf Cavalry look.  It's pretty hard core in my opinion. There's also some off brand ones that people have used but in the grand scheme of things, I like them a lot.  I even fought a unicorn army of Thunderwolf Cavalry.  Quite amusing.

[AbusePuppy]

If I wanted to play boring net list…. This is really not the way to go.

 

Not everyone fits your statements.

 

It's nice that you think that your Wulfen/Thunderwolf deathstar army isn't a netlist.

[Lord Hanaur]

Anywho, i think the time of reckoning is upon you TalonWinter.  The Guardian Cup awaits your grand entrance.  My advice?  Keep testing as often as possible.  I think it will do well.  I'll be surprised if you don't make the top 8 with your skillz.  I have seen the list, and I have a healthy respect for it.

 

If you wanna' throw down, let me know.  I wouldn't mind getting practice in also.  I've been screwing around with Orks and Necrons, Sisters of Battle and Militarum Tempestus lately.  Twould be good to get in more games with the Tau Empire.  i can also play an Eldar list if you wanna put it up against a REAL netlist!

[Talonwinter]

I l

It's nice that you think that your Wulfen/Thunderwolf deathstar army isn't a netlist.

I liked you article on frontline gaming.

 

I think we have different understanding of what the terms counter-meta and anti-meta is.

 

Lets just say vour perceptions differ on this..

 

If you are at Guardian Cup will look forward to seeing you, hopfully in the final rounds.

[Talonwinter]

Anywho, i think the time of reckoning is upon you TalonWinter.  The Guardian Cup awaits your grand entrance.  My advice?  Keep testing as often as possible.  I think it will do well.  I'll be surprised if you don't make the top 8 with your skillz.  I have seen the list, and I have a healthy respect for it.

 

If you wanna' throw down, let me know.  I wouldn't mind getting practice in also.  I've been screwing around with Orks and Necrons, Sisters of Battle and Militarum Tempestus lately.  Twould be good to get in more games with the Tau Empire.  i can also play an Eldar list if you wanna put it up against a REAL netlist!

Getting in to the top 8 would be nice. I want to beat my record from the last time which was 3-2 with my Tyranids.

 

I have only been getting better with this army since I started playing them in January. Compared to the Tyranids I normally play I am a new player with these guys.

 

 

I would love to get a few more games in before the Cup. I need to get practice on the non dawn of war missions. Hammer and anvil is problematic depending on the opponents army.

[Lord Hanaur]

you have my digits.  Call me.