Storm Of Iron

[IW Raptors]

Well, more Khorne, less Iron. But good book and got me into CSM back in the day, still have the army and 95% painted, so with the new book, I thought I'd try them out again. The WE are khorne flavoured Iron warriors.

 

World Eaters Butcherhorde:

 

Maelstrom of Gore:

 

Chaos Lord (MOK, Power Axe, Sigil of corruption, Talisman Of burning blood)

 

13 Berzerkers (Power Sword)

5 Berzerkers (Power Sword)

5 Berzerkers (Power Axe)

5 Berzerkers (Power Axe)

 

Chaos Warband:

 

Chaos Lord (MOK)

5 Chosen (Meltagun, MOK)

10 Chaos Space Marines (2 Meltaguns, MOK)

10 Chaos Space Marines (2 Meltaguns, MOK)

3 Chaos Bikes (Flamer, MOK)

5 Havocs (2 Meltaguns, MOK)

 

Auxiliary: Chaos Spawn (MOK)

 

Iron Warriors CAD

 

Sorcerer

 

10 Cultists

10 Cultists

 

5 Havocs (4 Lascannons)

 

1850pts

 

Chaos Warband Lord joins either the Havocs to give them obsec and fearless, or some Cultists. Everyone has free veterans of the long war, where applicable.

[Guest]

So plan is no transports, despite lots of short range units?

 

Could work if you've got lots of LOS blocking terrain. Especially if the opponent can't deny cover.

[IW Raptors]

Well the world Eaters get a 2d6 move before the game if they are on foot and can re-roll charges. In addition, the maelstrom of Gore adds +3 to their charges and get fleet for the zerks.Finally, the Chaos lord in the big squad with his talisman, adds another +3 to their movement, runs and charges. So for example, that squad has a 2d6 pre-game move, 9 movement and a +6 movement to their charges, re-rollable.

 

So not as slow as you'd think.

[Guest]

Well the world Eaters get a 2d6 move before the game if they are on foot and can re-roll charges. In addition, the maelstrom of Gore adds +3 to their charges and get fleet for the zeroes. Finally, the Chaos lord in the big squad with his talisman, adds another +3 to their movement, runs and charges. So for example, that squad has a 2d6 pre-game move, 9 movement and a +6 movement to their charges, re-rollable.

 

So not as slow as you'd think.

Okay, so against a shooty army, how many turns do you think it would take for your army to reach them? I'm looking at the army and you have the chaos spawn and 3 bikes as your 4 speedy models, and those kinda lack melee weaponry. Then the rest of the army arrives, what turn is it? And how do you survive shooting up until this point? List doesn't look durable and even with the adjustments, it doesn't look extremely fast. Even if I was running tyranids, I'd let you come to me if you brought such a list. Even shoddy tyranid shooting, I could still whittle you faster at range than you could whittle me down. 

 

Those lascannon havocs are a nice touch, but they don't solve anything, and present a soft target to be focus fired (though we'd really only need to pin them to make them stop contributing).

[IW Raptors]

Turn one for the lords unit and Berzerkers, or a very good chance of it on most table deployments and average pre-game move. The rest of the Berzerkers are iffy, possible turn one, charge turn 2 if not. The Bikes have a decent shot at turn one, the rest follows up on objectives after their pre-game moves, as they are objective secure.

 

Or at least that is the idea :p

[Guest]

Turn one for the lords unit and Berzerkers, or a very good chance of it on most table deployments and average pre-game move. The rest of the Berzerkers are iffy, possible turn one, charge turn 2 if not. The Bikes have a decent shot at turn one, the rest follows up on objectives after their pre-game moves, as they are objective secure.

 

Or at least that is the idea :p

If it can really go that fast, then sounds good. 

[galahad911]

So, either your opponent is going first and has a turn to move away from your big unit, or you deploy first and the other guy knows where your big unit is before he deploys. What I'm saying is that, generally, if you manage a first turn charge it's going to either be a speed bump unit, or something that your opponent thinks can beat you, like a real deathstar.

 

I mean, if it works for you, then great. But it would seem like getting to charge something other than what the other guy wants you to on turn one isn't terribly likely without you seizeing on someone.

[AbusePuppy]

The maximum reach of the unit is quite large- 12" with the pregame movement, 9" with its first-turn movement, and then 18" with its first-turn charge. In practice, avoiding this maximum reach is almost impossible, even in Hammer/Anvil deployment, provided that the unit is placed centrally on the table.

 

Of course, you also won't typically roll boxcars twice in a row for the unit, even with a reroll on your charge distance, so your actual reach is going to be a lot lower. Still, your opponent has to be fairly careful about where they deploy if you're going first, as you have the potential to really get out there and cause some damage- blocking units are all but a necessity.

[WestRider]

29" is the average First Turn reach, assuming you don't have to go through Terrain. That's pretty substantial, and even if screening Units are out there, provides a nearly unprecedented opportunity for an Assault Army to pick up First Strike/First Blood.

[galahad911]

9 or 10" into my DZ is a good long way, don't get me wrong, but not that hard to stay out of. And if he doesn't get a good roll on BOTH of those rolls he's got no chance at all.

 

And even then, let's be real here. It's a largish squad of Berzerkers and a Chaos Lord or 2, neither of which has a particularly dangerous weapon. If he fails the charge and is sitting in no man's land he's going to lose that entire unit to shooting. And even making a charge, that unit loses to any *real* CC unit.

 

Like I said before, if it works for you, good on ya. But... Yeah.

[IW Raptors]

I'm open to ideas on the list of course, not really aiming for heady heights, just a way to play my CSM models against other non top builds and stand a chance. Haven't played CSM in a loooooooong time, so I'm flying pretty blind. I know Cabals rock and khorne dog stars are a thing, after that..

 

My thoughts behind the list was, a fast assault formation, the rest of the army is objective secure and plays the mission ultimately. The Warband can reach the midfield with their speed and Iron warriors CAD cover the backfield.

[AbusePuppy]

If I were suggesting improvements to the list personally, I think the first thing I would change is the Iron Warriors CAD. It's not really adding a lot, nor is it giving you anything that your existing units don't already have- it's just a slightly different anti-tank at a longer range (and you're not even using Oblits as troops, which seems like an obvious pick given what you seemed to be aiming for.)

 

The Chaos Warband is a fairly decent formation, but I'm not really sure you're getting good mileage out of it given the fact that you're trying to cram it together with the Maelstrom. I would say that go with either one or the other- two core detachments is a very ambitious choice and prohibits you from doing much else with the army or even taking full advantage of either Core detachment.

 

The Butcherhorde's bonus is potentially really strong, especially in combination with Talisman, but you still need to be conscious of what your units are and what they can do. If you're pushing an aggressive strategy (which World Eaters really should be doing), you need to make sure your units have the tools to take on different types of enemy threats. What happens if you run up against an enemy walker or monstrous creature? You have some Meltaguns, but they are unlikely to be able to take down a Knight that is played well, much less several of them.

[IW Raptors]

Thanks, I agree the list could do with allot of work. I'm a bit like a kid in a candy store or..a deer caught in headlights. I think, if I had to pick one, the Warbands objective secure, is preferable. Khorne Berzerkers are an extra 4pts a pop and trade objective secure for the extra charge distance & WS5. I think they are viable in the Maelstrom of Gore, but if I had to pick one core choice right now, objective secure is such a strong rule. 

 

The Chaos lord with the talisman is an auto include, then I think it would be a decent idea to bring in another Chaos lord, with the Axe of blind fury and such. 

 

I want to run CSM, so a big 20 man squad, which includes the Chaos lords & talisman, looks like a way of putting allot of angry marines in an opponents face. After that, i'm not quite sure how to build the warband and support it. The Raptor talon as an auxiliary choice looks a good fit, instead of deep striking, start them on the board to get the benefit of the butcherhorde. 

 

I don't really want to include a cabal, but I keep looking at it, because it is so good. And so dirty. But so unfluffy. 

[AbusePuppy]

I don't think you really need a Cabal at all. It's good, but it's not a Librarius Conclave or anything.

 

You mentioned the Raptor Talon as an alternative, and if you want we can build from there- it's a solid formation that gives you options to either start on the board or Deep Strike in. Lost and the Damned, Favored of Chaos, Terminator Annihilation Force, and Cult of Destruction all have some possibilities as well, and an Armored Fist or Heldrake Terror Pack doesn't fit with the core theme of "gotta go fast" but does help you patch up some of the holes in the army and so could also be worth considering. It's also worth thinking about whether you want to include some additional units of Havocs or Bikes, since they are available in the core formation.

 

And yes, I think including at least one additional Lord (or Kharn) is a solid option for this army. You can get a very killy Khorne Lord for a pretty cheap price.

 

If you want to keep the Iron Warriors detachment you could definitely do a lot worse than them for tank-hunting duties; two solo Obliterators and then 2-3 units of guys with Autocannons is a very solid deal. Lascannons are far from bad, but with Melta already available in the Warband I would aim for something that is better-suited to wrecking light tanks such as Rhinos so your dudes can assault the guys inside them.

 

Maybe try something like this:

 

BUTCHERHORDE DETACHMENT (all models have VotLW where appropriate)

CHAOS WARBAND

1 Chaos Lord (MoK, Power Fist, Juggernaut, Talisman of Burning Blood) (160)

20 Chaos Space Marines (BP/CCW, 2 Flamers, MoK, Power Sword) (335)

10 Chaos Space Marines (BP/CCW, 2 Meltaguns, MoK, Meltabombs) (185)

5 Chosen (MoK, 2 Meltaguns) (120)

3 Chaos Bikes (MoK, 2 Meltaguns) (100)

5 Havocs (MoK, 4 Flamers) (105)

RAPTOR TALON

1 Chaos Lord (free Jump Pack, Axe of Blind Fury, MoK) (110)

5 Raptors (2 Meltaguns) (125)

5 Raptors (2 Meltaguns) (125)

5 Warp Talons (MoK) (180)

IRON WARRIORS COMBINED ARMS

1 Sorcerer (60)

1 Obliterator (70)

1 Obliterator (70)

5 Havocs (4 Autocannons) (115)

5 Havocs (4 Autocannons) (115)

 

Unfortunately that's still 1975pts if my calculations are correct, so you need to make some cuts. You could cut the IW entirely and just add them in as additional Khorne units; you could also trim the Warp Talons down to regular Raptors (though I like having that unit of AP3 assaulting out of deep strike.) There's also potentially room to cut some of the special weapons or extra bodies in the Khorne units in order to fit into 1850pts, since you have rather a large number of Melta and Flamer weapons available to you.

 

(The "Sorcerer" in the IW detachment would probably be one of the Khorne units from Age of Sigmar that can perform various warp-spawned miracles without the use of magic. For fluff reasons.)

[IW Raptors]

Wow, thanks for that effort. Yeah I think the Raptor talon is a natural fit, 2d6 pre-game move and re-roll charges on them, + all the khorne rules and fearless, makes them playable I think. Warp talons is pretty maverick though! 

 

I like the Iron warriors detachment, but i'm also considering just expanding out the warband via havocs, I think Havocs with multiple special weapons+objective secure, could be solid, e.g. 10 man squads with 4 meltaguns. Do yous think they'd need a Rhino in that setup? Losing the pregame move is a bit, crap. I have the models to play it either way, so it is just a matter of which is more workable. I don't think i'd go heavy weapons on WE havocs, better off with the Iron warriors in that case. 

 

I was sticking the sigil on my CSM lord as I saw others doing it, but 25pts for a 4++ is steep. Is it the done thing for a reason, or just players picking up an inv save for sake of it? Also, in regards to those Aspiring champs, do yous reckon if taking a melee weapon, sword, axe or fist? I don't really rate the power sword, but swinging at initiative and st5 on the charge makes it worthy of consideration imo. 

[WestRider]

 

 

I was sticking the sigil on my CSM lord as I saw others doing it, but 25pts for a 4++ is steep. Is it the done thing for a reason, or just players picking up an inv save for sake of it? Also, in regards to those Aspiring champs, do yous reckon if taking a melee weapon, sword, axe or fist? I don't really rate the power sword, but swinging at initiative and st5 on the charge makes it worthy of consideration imo. 

Honestly, I've regretted it every time I didn't pick up the Sigil. It's pricy, but not having it tends to really suck.

 

Maul would actually be my first choice if you're taking an upgraded Weapon for your Champions. The only thing the sword is better against is 3+Armour, and even then, not within all Toughness ranges.

[AbusePuppy]

I like the Iron warriors detachment, but i'm also considering just expanding out the warband via havocs, I think Havocs with multiple special weapons+objective secure, could be solid, e.g. 10 man squads with 4 meltaguns. Do yous think they'd need a Rhino in that setup? Losing the pregame move is a bit, crap. I have the models to play it either way, so it is just a matter of which is more workable. I don't think i'd go heavy weapons on WE havocs, better off with the Iron warriors in that case. 

 

I was sticking the sigil on my CSM lord as I saw others doing it, but 25pts for a 4++ is steep. Is it the done thing for a reason, or just players picking up an inv save for sake of it? Also, in regards to those Aspiring champs, do yous reckon if taking a melee weapon, sword, axe or fist? I don't really rate the power sword, but swinging at initiative and st5 on the charge makes it worthy of consideration imo. 

 

I wouldn't bother with the Rhino- as you say, it negates the main benefit of your decurion, which I think is a huge disadvantage and would be tactically very awkward. It could be argued on the IW ones since you can sit two with Autocannons inside the tank and still be pretty able to take out enemy transports, but definitely not for the WE ones.

 

The Sigil can be a decent buy and I do take if for some of my guys, but it does get expensive pretty quick. Thematically, I'm fine with not buying it because BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, and mechanically you are probably throwing one of your chump sergeants at the mandatory challenge so that your other models can annihilate the enemy with their normal attacks. (That, incidentally, is why the champion has a power sword in the big unit.) I don't normally like Swords either, but when they are S5 they are a lot more valuable- though Lightning Claws are numerically the same or better against most targets, if you are willing to model them.

 

 

Honestly, I've regretted it every time I didn't pick up the Sigil. It's pricy, but not having it tends to really suck.

 

Maul would actually be my first choice if you're taking an upgraded Weapon for your Champions. The only thing the sword is better against is 3+Armour, and even then, not within all Toughness ranges.

 

I skip the Sigil pretty often on my Lords; it sometimes hurts not to have it, but I don't think it's mandatory. I normally like the Maul as a choice, but with Str 5 on the charge it actually loses a lot of its value and the Sword/Claws become more useful.

[WestRider]

 

I skip the Sigil pretty often on my Lords; it sometimes hurts not to have it, but I don't think it's mandatory. I normally like the Maul as a choice, but with Str 5 on the charge it actually loses a lot of its value and the Sword/Claws become more useful.

I haven't actually skipped it that often, so it is true that saying I've always regretted it is representing fewer occurrences in absolute numbers than the percentage implies.

 

Furious Charge def helps the Sword more than the Maul. I do kind of like getting to be S7 for beating up Vehicles, tho, and if you do get stuck against something you can't quickly power through, the balance swings back toward the Maul. I suspect it's close enough that it's a matter of what you're expecting to go up against most often rather than either being a clear-cut better option here.

[AbusePuppy]

If you're charging a tank, the masses of S5 hits should down it easily. If you're fighting a walker, S7 probably isn't going to do the job, nor will S6 when you're off the charge; I'd rather pay for the Power Fist or Meltabombs. The Maul has its uses on a lot of units, but I don't really like it in a World Eaters army, generally speaking.

[IW Raptors]

Khorne and powerlances lads is the way :p (Probably not a bad shout really, but who has lance models floating around?!).

 

I will try going sans sigil and see how it goes, my gut feeling, is 25pts a pop is too steep for a 4++. I think my aspiring champions will bite the challenge bullet if something is sufficiently scary for my lords. I saw a CSM battle report, where someone was using the Warband re-rolls on boon table to make their okay Chaos lord into a beat stick rather then sticking loads of points into him, I like it, cheap date kinda guy that I am.

 

Thanks again for everyone's advice. I think I have an idea now what to playtest and focus on. The two ideas I'm going to try are the Warband+Raptor Talon & Iron warriors, as it thematically works and looks pretty playable. I'm also going to try a list with more points invested into the Warband itself, by expanding out with havoc squads and special weapons. They can't trade their bolters for cc weapons, but 10 WE Havocs, with 4 Meltas/flamers or maybe even Plasma look a decent prospect to me, with objective secure and WE benefits. Not tournament winning, but versatile.

[WestRider]

The one recommendation I will make with no hesitation or qualification whatsoever is that you should use Brotherhood of Man by Motörhead as the theme song for this \m/

[AbusePuppy]

I think you misspelled "Metal Gods" by Judas Priest there. Might wanna correct that typo, friend.

[WestRider]

 

 

We've taken too much for granted
And all the time it had grown
From techno seeds we first planted
Evolved a mind of its own

Marching in the streets
Dragging iron feet
Laser beaming hearts
Ripping men apart

From off I've seen my perfection
Where we could do as we please
In secrecy this infection
Was spreading like a disease

Hiding underground
Knowing we'd be found
Fearing for our lives
Reaped by robot's scythes

Metal Gods
Metal Gods

[solo Glenn]

Metal Gods
Metal Gods

Machines are taking all over
With mankind in their command
In time they'd like to discover
How they can make their demand

Better be the slaves
To their wicked ways
But meeting with our death
Engulfed in molten breath

vs.

 

 

Now your time has come a storm of iron in the sky,
War and murder come again, lucky if you die.
No way to rescue destiny, scream and curse in vain,
You will never be remembered, no one knows your name.

When the music changes then all is broken down,
Mighty cities laid to ruin, burning to the ground.
Murder is become the law; you cannot make a stand,
Chaos rules the world now mortal, brotherhood of man.

You cannot hide the truth from me I know what's in your heart,
Greed and jealousy each equal, all your days now dark.
Mighty mountains fall in dust the world falls into hell,
Faith in lying prophets, no one to lift the spell.

Monsters rule your world are you too scared to understand?
You shall be forever judged and you shall surely hang,
We live and scrape in misery; we die by our own hand,
And still we murder our own children, brotherhood of man.

Blood on all our hands we cannot hope to wash them clean,
History is mystery do you know what it means?
Slaughter, kill and fighting still and murdered where we stand,
Our legacy is lunacy, brotherhood of man.

We are worse than animals, we hunger for the kill.
We put our faith in maniacs the triumph of the will,
We kill for money, wealth and lust, for this we should be damned.
We are disease upon the world, brotherhood of man.

 

Metal Gods is about a Robot Apocalypse. Brotherhood of Man is straight up Khorne, and even has a Name Drop for the Army.

[IW Raptors]

The music choice is the most important thing really.

 

I'll bring the mission impossible theme as a backup for those games vs top lists.

[AbusePuppy]

I mean if we wanna get really thematic, then obvious we're putting on Bolt Thrower.