Astra Millitarum Questions

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Wellington99 said:

Ok.  I could proxy the Scion Command Squad as an AM Command Squad with carapace, then take regular Scions as elites. Do I have that right?

 

in the book it just lists Commissars and the Command Squad as HQ options. Not sure if I need a Command Squad but I'll take a look

It'll still be a bit confusing, to have scions represent both regular infantry and scions, but for the opponent, the main thing is that the two units are T3 models with 4+ saves AND you can tell them apart. Ideally, when you get them painted, the non-scion Carapace Command squad will be distinct from the Scion Squad.

As for the Commissar, what I'm referencing is how the AM codex mentions that the Commissar, the Primaris Psyker, the Ministrom Priest, and the Mechicum Enginseer do not occupy a FoC slot and do not qualify as a mandatory HQ choice. I don't recall the wording for the one in the Scion codex, so I'm not sure if it's there or not.

For the AM codex, the HQ options that DO count for your mandatory HQ, are: Lord Commissar, Company Command Squad, Tank Commander, and Commissar Yarrick. There's probably some FW ones too.

[Wellington99]

Ah well I can easily get a Lord Commissar in there as HQ. I use one as my warlord when running either my Scions or Guard. I got about four Commissars now.

 

I'll check the Scion codex tomorrow on the wording there.

 

I'm also sure I can probably kitbash an AM Commander together from what all bits and bobs I have, and a command squad. That or borrow some Empire figures to make the Command Squad and Commander.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Wellington99 said:

I'm also sure I can probably kitbash an AM Commander together from what all bits and bobs I have, and a command squad. That or borrow some Empire figures to make the Command Squad and Commander.

It's preferred, when making proxies, to use models not in your army, to represent your army, rather than using models in your army, to represent multiple types of units within the same army. For example, using Empire models for a command squad would be so much better than using Scions as the Command squad and as a Scion squad in the same force. Should totally kitbash the Empire models so they have more 40k-looking weapons, but those models would be awesome guardsmen. Especially the Empire riflemen.

Could even kitbash the steam tank into an armored sentinel (with wooden legs instead wheels).

But I don't mean to dwell on proxies. Sounds like your army will look pretty cool.

[Wellington99]

Unfortunately I didn't get to a point where I could get a steam tank. I'll see about nabbing some pictures of them once I get it sorted.

 

Good news is though one of the players at the local store who's been around for a long while did some spring cleaning and apparently has some stuff for me so I'll have some extra things to play around with

[Wellington99]

So I gave the MT codex a read and I couldn't see anywhere about the HQ options outside of "here's the Commissar/Lord Commissar and Command Squad. They are your HQ options". I couldn't find anything else about them. I've been taking the command squad regardless.

[Wellington99]

9 minutes ago, necrontyr said:

Commissars and Command squads are your only option for an MT HQ. 

Yes you absolutely can do this. Only issue is make sure there are no hellguns in the squad,as a AM Command Squad can't use them. Stats are the same otherwise, other than the Commander. You can always just take a Commissar or Lord Commissar too. You are not required to take a command squad.

Well my command squad is kitted with four plasma so no worries there.

So I'm not required to take a command squad for the Scions, I can give them a Commissar/Lord Commissar and use the Command Squad for the AM Command Squad just giving them the AM stats which are pretty much the same. I think I have that right.

[Wellington99]

2 minutes ago, necrontyr said:

Yes sir, that is all correct.

Sweet. I'll give that a try tomorrow running them as so.

[Wellington99]

Well great knews. Saturday Sean offloaded a bunch of Guard stuff on to me for me to add and assemble, and I should be set at least for a short while. 

 

Thirty Guardsmen, two Chimeras, one Chimera with ten Catachans, three Catachan Sentinels, two Sentinels, a Valkyrie, a Leman Russ, a Leman Russ Vanquisher, a Basilisk (those three already mostly assembled and the normal Russ already painted), a Heavy Weapons Team, a Hellhound, and of course a Baneblade.

 

I've also finished assembling and painting the rest of my Scions so I now have three full squads of 10 I can deploy.

 

With this, I can certainly run the Recon company formation and go mechanized what with the other Russes, Chimeras, and such. Any good tips on how best to run this mechanized company?

[Guest]

On 3/7/2017 at 7:36 AM, Wellington99 said:

With this, I can certainly run the Recon company formation and go mechanized what with the other Russes, Chimeras, and such. Any good tips on how best to run this mechanized company?

Well, first, if the goal is cheating....There is a very annoying AM tactic where you have lots of transports, and then just have the contents of the transports and the transports shoot in a very confusing order, which allows the AM player often fire the same unit multiple times in the same shooting phase. Definitely cheating, so I'm not seriously suggesting this, but if you ever face AM opponents using lots of transports, this is a real issue, and very common - they'll claim they "forgot" which units had fired.

More honest AM players will develop a method to keep track of which transport, and which embarked unit, has fired, because it really does get confusing.

I haven't successfully run a mechanized force in a while, so grain of salt and all, but here goes anyway:

Maybe 4 key defense options for a mechanized force:

-Facings. Your AV is weaker on the sides and even weaker in the back. Furthermore, the closer you are to an opponent, the easier it is for them to change facings that they are shooting at, by moving around your vehicle. For vehicle squadrons, a big consideration is that the opponent must shooting the closest vehicle in the squadron, so you can deliberately have the closest Leman Russ be the one that is facing the opponent, while another Leman Russ is poised to present their facing to an enemy coming from the side, or even the rear of your formation.

-Proximity to the enemy. Melee is bad for tanks, especially because they can't overwatch (though transports can fire overwatch with their embarked units, though the fire points). Long range tanks will definitely survive longer than short range tanks. That said, stay at long range will often make your tank unable to secure objectives. So you need to be very decisive about where you place your tanks, and where they move. Regarding melee options for tanks, always remember the "tank shock" option. Tank Shock is very useful. It imposes a moral check for non-fearless units, which can be very impressive on it's own. You can also attempt to ram other vehicles, which can be impressive, especially on Leman Russ tanks because they get a bonus for being heavy vehicles.

Reserve Enemies. One major issue is that not all the enemies will start on the table. They will often deep strike or outflank into a position that hits your side or rear armor. There are counters to this, the easiest of which is to just have lots of models arranged so the opponent cannot safely enter the table near your units. Deep Strikers and infiltrators alike, will both require a legal location to place their models (so placement for the unit, 1" gap between their unit and your models, and they might have a transport, like a drop pod, which also needs space). So for tanks, if your opponent is drop podding space marines with melta guns, an easy defense is to place infantry in a "bubble" 6" around you key tanks. Since their melta guns only get armorbane at half range (6") this will likely prevent them from being able to land the pods and melta your tanks down turn 1 (at least against leman russ front armor).

Saves. Cover or invulnerable saves will greatly impact your survivability. Smoke Launchers are on most tanks, plus you do have the camo gear option, but cover is pretty common. If you do plan to get cover saves by being in terrain, the Dozer blade option is well worth the points. The Bullgryn Slabshields also add to cover saves. At first glance, invulnerable saves cannot be found in the AM codex for vehicles. That said, with psychic powers, you can gain invulnerable saves for your AM vehicles. Power #2 on Divination and Power #5 on Telekinesis both grant invulnerable saves to other units (like vehicles). Telepathy has the Invisibility power, which doesn't grant saves, but still dramatically increases survivability of it's target. Pyromancy also has an ability which grants 4+ cover to a target unit.

[pretre]

22 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Well, first, if the goal is cheating....There is a very annoying AM tactic where you have lots of transports, and then just have the contents of the transports and the transports shoot in a very confusing order, which allows the AM player often fire the same unit multiple times in the same shooting phase. Definitely cheating, so I'm not seriously suggesting this, but if you ever face AM opponents using lots of transports, this is a real issue, and very common - they'll claim they "forgot" which units had fired.

 

[Wellington99]

Hmm ok. Not the cheating stuff of course but the other stuff'll be incredibly useful.

 

I did finally get to use orders in a game I played last Saturday (rolled for Commissar and got one of the traits that gave him the ability to give orders. Used just a normal Commissar because still trying to work out the company Command Squad and I wanted as much things on the board as I could at that time for a 500 point game versus Orks). Unfortunately the squad I used it on got shot to hell so Rank Fire wasn't anywhere as good, but the potential is there for sure.

 

Its been suggested to me to kit my CCS with an Astropath and HWT. What's the thoughts on this? And should I invest in a PCS (platoon command squad) to make a blob of infantry and attach a Commissar to them?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Wellington99 said:

Its been suggested to me to kit my CCS with an Astropath and HWT. What's the thoughts on this? And should I invest in a PCS (platoon command squad) to make a blob of infantry and attach a Commissar to them?

Astropath is the, or one of the, cheapest psykers in the game. So definitely include one, if running a CCS anyway. Telepathy is a good disipline (and he'll two powers because psychic focus gives him the primaris for rolling all his one power on the same table). Even if you don't use the psychic powers, having the extra dice to dispel enemy powers is very useful. 

Commissar is nice if you have leadership issues in a unit. Gives them stubborn and leadership 9, plus potential re-rolls by killing models in the unit. I suggest testing the unit with and without the commissar, to determine if the fit is good for that unit. Not all units will benefit. 

Heavy weapon team depends on how you plan to use the unit. If the goal is the keep the unit safe, I like the Mortar. If you plan to move an fire, the auto-cannon or heavy bolter could work, but you might be better off with multi-special weapons instead. Heavy weapons will prevent your unit from charging after shooting, as will rapid fire weapons, so stay away from those if you plan to assault the enemy with your unit loadouts (krak grenades and melta bombs against vehicles and buildings is the most common AM target to assault).

[Wellington99]

The Commissar has been good thus far because of my squads being the target of Psychic Shriek (DA player with Librarian) and just in general my squad of literal red shirts getting gutpunched and wrecked. 

 

Ive thought about the lascannon in with the CCS because I've seen a lot of Guards players do that.

 

What are thoughts on the Hellhound variants? I've done some research of my own and it's said that the Bane Wolf is great vs MEQ what with its chem cannon

[Dusldorf]

If you're going to run an Astropath, consider taking one from the Imperial Agents dex. Whenever it successfully manifests a Telepathy power, you'll get to re-roll Reserve rolls the following turn.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Wellington99 said:

The Commissar has been good thus far because of my squads being the target of Psychic Shriek (DA player with Librarian) and just in general my squad of literal red shirts getting gutpunched and wrecked. 

 

Ive thought about the lascannon in with the CCS because I've seen a lot of Guards players do that.

 

What are thoughts on the Hellhound variants? I've done some research of my own and it's said that the Bane Wolf is great vs MEQ what with its chem cannon

I think hellhounds are just a bit too expensive. It's the FAST rule and the side AV 12 that's high cost and they didn't used to have it, and it prevents you from using them in kill team. Anyway, Haven't used them in this edition, but I did enjoy them in previous editions. They die really quickly, the chem cannon versions, just because they aren't torrent so you need to be in melee range to use them - they are great until they die, so I wouln't let that prevent me from using them. I think when I was running them, I ultimately decided on melta cannons with hull heavy flamers. But that was editions ago, back when S8 would instant death SM bikers (biker bonus toughness didn't used to count for instant death purposes). The Melta cannon, remains one of the more accurate AT weapons for AM, just because blast weapons tend to be more reliable than BS 3. The flamer one is very strong, and actually worth it. Don't underestimate Torrent weapons, especially when they have enough strength to actually damage skimmers. 

Lascannon would be nice if you plan to be in line of sight to the enemy AND you expect to be very far away from your opponent. I'd consider Camo gear for such a squad, and maybe sniper rifles for the other veterans. Missile Launcher might prove more practical (bit cheaper and usually just as good). I've not found flakk missiles to be worth it, at least for my marines, but maybe they'd work well with orders. 

[Wellington99]

1 hour ago, Dusldorf said:

If you're going to run an Astropath, consider taking one from the Imperial Agents dex. Whenever it successfully manifests a Telepathy power, you'll get to re-roll Reserve rolls the following turn.

So take an Astropath from Imp Agents as part of a detachment of allies? Or am I thinking of something else, like Inquisition allies?

[VonVilkee]

Imperial agents has a specific detachment for a bunch of small factions take a slightly different one as as hq and optionally add squads of sanctioned psykers. Can't remember numbers.  They would function using the allies rules they would cause some transport issues (different faction, battle brother) but the astropath is an ic which is helpful... and harnesses better if close to the sanctioned psykers.

[Wellington99]

1 hour ago, VonVilkee said:

Imperial agents has a specific detachment for a bunch of small factions take a slightly different one as as hq and optionally add squads of sanctioned psykers. Can't remember numbers.  They would function using the allies rules they would cause some transport issues (different faction, battle brother) but the astropath is an ic which is helpful... and harnesses better if close to the sanctioned psykers.

So hopefully if I understand correctly, I can take a detachment of an Imperial Agent astropath with sanctioned psykers alongside my army which seems to be the better choice (with the exception of transports but not that big of a deal to me). Along the same lines, should I also see about taking an Inquisitor? I've seen it be suggested in other places as a good thing to take alongside Guard.

[VonVilkee]

Sounds like imperial agents might be a good book for you. I wish I had my copy here at work... yes you can take a single inquisitor form the book as well,  he would be his own detachment and get a warlord trait! This specifically allows for multiple models with traits. They are high leadership and stubborn reducing the need for commissars. 

Each faction in the book has its own detachment and there are a few formations as well. So if your area allows for lots of detachments you can make a battle forged army from tons of factions all under the banner of an army of the imperium. 

[Dusldorf]

20 hours ago, Wellington99 said:

So hopefully if I understand correctly, I can take a detachment of an Imperial Agent astropath with sanctioned psykers alongside my army which seems to be the better choice (with the exception of transports but not that big of a deal to me). Along the same lines, should I also see about taking an Inquisitor? I've seen it be suggested in other places as a good thing to take alongside Guard.

That's correct. And yes Inquisitors can be great allies for IG. One good use is putting one with rad grenades in an infantry blob with lots of power axes..makes it way easier to wound MEQs. Another common configuration is to have an inquisitor in terminator armor with psycannon/nemesis daemon hammer...makes a great leader for units of Ogryns, or a mobile Vet squad...only catch there is that he has to foot slog.

[VonVilkee]

There are three ordos or schools if you will. Malleus focus on anti demon, from time to time over the years of books they have been included with the grey knights. Hereticus anti witches and psychers, in with the sisters allot. Finally xenos is anti alien the death watch come from them. With in each ordo there are traditional and radical descriptions,  traditional just uses imperial tech while radical will turn their enemies tools against them. This is all fluff and has little to do with rules but will help you identify the type of inquisitor some one is suggesting so you can look up their options and pints cost. 

 

Another detail to be aware of is there are two inquisitor data slates  (unit entry) for each one.  There is a mostly digital codex inquisition (has an armory section like your AM book, so older but different options), and the imperial agents book that has most all the options for each one on their page. Currently you can't mix and match the entries but you can use the proper battlefield role in detachments from either book. 

 

Don't be surprised if you get the imperial agents book and the specific suggestions you get on equipment don't match up. 

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Wellington99 said:

So hopefully if I understand correctly, I can take a detachment of an Imperial Agent astropath with sanctioned psykers alongside my army which seems to be the better choice (with the exception of transports but not that big of a deal to me). Along the same lines, should I also see about taking an Inquisitor? I've seen it be suggested in other places as a good thing to take alongside Guard.

Down side, is that it means more book purchases, plus most events limit your number of detachments. The ITC, for example, has a current limit of 3 detachments. So depending on what AM units you want to bring, taking units from another codex may mean you can't take another formation. Not a big deal, just something to think about. 

[Wellington99]

4 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Down side, is that it means more book purchases, plus most events limit your number of detachments. The ITC, for example, has a current limit of 3 detachments. So depending on what AM units you want to bring, taking units from another codex may mean you can't take another formation. Not a big deal, just something to think about. 

Well I don't plan on going to events any time soon. At least the place where I play at is pretty lax and should be able to run detachments easily

[Wellington99]

On 3/9/2017 at 5:08 PM, VonVilkee said:

Sounds like imperial agents might be a good book for you. I wish I had my copy here at work... yes you can take a single inquisitor form the book as well,  he would be his own detachment and get a warlord trait! This specifically allows for multiple models with traits. They are high leadership and stubborn reducing the need for commissars. 

Each faction in the book has its own detachment and there are a few formations as well. So if your area allows for lots of detachments you can make a battle forged army from tons of factions all under the banner of an army of the imperium. 

That last part does sound really cool. I will admit I'm tempted to get a detachment of Crimson Fists to go along with my army and such. I'm going to a hobby shop next town over that I've only just found out about that apparently sells 40k stuff so I'm gonna take a look in there. Who knows? Maybe they have some old stuff they're selling on the cheap that I can cobble together into things.

 

In terms of why Crimson Fists, well a friend of mine is heavily into the Imperial Fists, and I used to like the Dark Angles a lot. They were my favorite SM chapter, which to be fair wasn't saying much because I never got into Space Marines as much as others. Looked up others, found the Crimson Fists, and there I am.Not saying I'm gonna actually act on it, but then again about a week ago I didn't expect to have a load of Guard stuff dumped on me for free, so I'll see how tomorrow goes.

 

One quick question I had was that of the Valkyrie. Should I go with a Valkyrie, or should I instead make it as a Vendetta? If I do that, I could easily put my Scion Command Squad in as the Scions have plasma and can be a quick striking force. I've also heard good things about the Vendetta.

[Guest]

On March 10, 2017 at 8:50 PM, Wellington99 said:

 

One quick question I had was that of the Valkyrie. Should I go with a Valkyrie, or should I instead make it as a Vendetta? If I do that, I could easily put my Scion Command Squad in as the Scions have plasma and can be a quick striking force. I've also heard good things about the Vendetta.

Do you want the flyer for the damage output, or for the transport? 

The Vendetta is a better flyer in damage output, no question, but it holds less guys and costs more. What do you need the flyer to do?

Regarding Scions, Flyer transports is iffy because the scions can normally deep strike. So if the plan is to jump out of a moving flyer, understand that your normal deep strike option is better and less dangerous. If you plan to have the flyer arrive in zoom mode on turn 2+, then on turn 3+ disembark from hover mode, you will probably arrive a turn after you would if you just deep striked. 

I suggest using the flyers to transport non-scions. 

There is also an upgrade option for the Skyshield Landing Pad, where your flyer can begin the game on the table in hover mode (unless planetary assault changed this). Never really tried this, but it is an option and could make for a better scion transport option since it's more armored than their other choices.