Astra Millitarum Questions

[Wellington99]

14 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Do you want the flyer for the damage output, or for the transport? 

The Vendetta is a better flyer in damage output, no question, but it holds less guys and costs more. What do you need the flyer to do?

Regarding Scions, Flyer transports is iffy because the scions can normally deep strike. So if the plan is to jump out of a moving flyer, understand that your normal deep strike option is better and less dangerous. If you plan to have the flyer arrive in zoom mode on turn 2+, then on turn 3+ disembark from hover mode, you will probably arrive a turn after you would if you just deep striked. 

I suggest using the flyers to transport non-scions. 

There is also an upgrade option for the Skyshield Landing Pad, where your flyer can begin the game on the table in hover mode (unless planetary assault changed this). Never really tried this, but it is an option and could make for a better scion transport option since it's more armored than their other choices.

Initially it was for the transport, but because I now have three Chimeras and my Scions will most likely end up deepstriking, I'll probably end up doing a Vendetta for the air support.

[Wellington99]

So I'm starting on my Valkyrie kit and have two questions. To make it a Vendetta, is all I need to do to the model to add two more lascannons? If so I can easily do that thanks to my Sentinel and Russ kits. And what do I do about the heavy bolter guys that are supposed to be in the middle of the Valkyrie? Leave them be and not use them?

[VonVilkee]

Sounds right!

[pretre]

Technically, you need two twin linked lascannons for the wings and then you need to modify the chin lascannon to be twin linked.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, pretre said:

Technically, you need two twin linked lascannons for the wings and then you need to modify the chin lascannon to be twin linked.

Yeah, this. So 5 more lascannons + the base kit which only comes with 1.

If lacking conversion bits, you could field the Vendetta with Hellfury missiles (same missile bit as the hellstrike), so then you'd only need the one lascannon extra.

[Wellington99]

1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

Yeah, this. So 5 more lascannons + the base kit which only comes with 1.

If lacking conversion bits, you could field the Vendetta with Hellfury missiles (same missile bit as the hellstrike), so then you'd only need the one lascannon extra.

The Hellfury Missiles do seem interesting. At the moment I have the one with the base kit, the two from the Sentinel kits I've used before, two in two other Sentinel kits, and then I can either use one from the Russ kit or if the Catachan sentinels have one. Is it recommended that I tack on the heavy bolter sponsons or leave it as is?

[pretre]

Are hell fury the ordnance ones? Cause those are terribad.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, pretre said:

Are hell fury the ordnance ones? Cause those are terribad.

Nah, the hellfury are the one-shot large blast & ignores cover with S4 ap5. Worse than the lascannons they replace, but if your short the lascannon bits, the hellfury missiles are a nice option while you scrounge up the bits for proper TL lascannons, since the kit includes missiles, but lacks the TL lascannons. 

Really hoping we get a Vendetta/Sky Talon Kit for the next time we get updated kits for AM. That and rough riders (and good rules for said rough riders).

[Wellington99]

12 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Nah, the hellfury are the one-shot large blast & ignores cover with S4 ap5. Worse than the lascannons they replace, but if your short the lascannon bits, the hellfury missiles are a nice option while you scrounge up the bits for proper TL lascannons, since the kit includes missiles, but lacks the TL lascannons. 

Really hoping we get a Vendetta/Sky Talon Kit for the next time we get updated kits for AM. That and rough riders (and good rules for said rough riders).

Well I should be able to get the lascannon situation sorted. What about my question about the heavy bolter guys in the middle of the Valkyrie? Should I just ignore them or do they represent the heavy bolter sponsons? And do you recommend the heavy bolter option?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Wellington99 said:

Well I should be able to get the lascannon situation sorted. What about my question about the heavy bolter guys in the middle of the Valkyrie? Should I just ignore them or do they represent the heavy bolter sponsons? And do you recommend the heavy bolter option?

Missed it, sorry. 

They do represent the heavy bolter sponsons.

You can make the model able to "swivel" the heavy bolters in and out from the sliding doors, if you want them optional. As for using them, really depends which other weapons you have equiped. Flyers zooming can move and fire 4 weapons at full BS. So, by default, your valk or vendetta will have 5 weapons when you add the sponsons. If you plan to take one-use missiles, I think the merit of having heavy bolters goes up by quite a bit. 

But it all comes down to the role of the vehicle in the army. Again, if the goal is just a transport, I think the upgrades are worthless. Keep transport cheap. If the goal is to firepower, the heavy bolters do have some merit. Be careful, though, as they can get really expensive quickly. Personally, If the plan was a vendetta with hellfury missiles, I'd take the heavy bolters. Otherwise, I don't really think the heavy bolters are worth the +20pts.

[Wellington99]

8 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Missed it, sorry. 

They do represent the heavy bolter sponsons.

You can make the model able to "swivel" the heavy bolters in and out from the sliding doors, if you want them optional. As for using them, really depends which other weapons you have equiped. Flyers zooming can move and fire 4 weapons at full BS. So, by default, your valk or vendetta will have 5 weapons when you add the sponsons. If you plan to take one-use missiles, I think the merit of having heavy bolters goes up by quite a bit. 

But it all comes down to the role of the vehicle in the army. Again, if the goal is just a transport, I think the upgrades are worthless. Keep transport cheap. If the goal is to firepower, the heavy bolters do have some merit. Be careful, though, as they can get really expensive quickly. Personally, If the plan was a vendetta with hellfury missiles, I'd take the heavy bolters. Otherwise, I don't really think the heavy bolters are worth the +20pts.

Hmm alright. Honestly I don't think I have much issue in terms of transport right now, and I have I think enough ant-infantry. What I think I'm in need of is the ability to crack heavily armored units be they the Kastelan Robots or the Battle Servitors with plasma/grav, or being able to comfortably deal with vehicles. Fortunately getting an Astropath + Psyker detachment will help with a lot of things due to psychic shriek, the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor IIRC is the best one to take that can add some power, and what with having the Recon Company, the Leman Russ's, and the option to add a Hellhound/its varients and/or a Basilisk, I should be ok in the anti-infantry department. 

Speaking of, I'm so tempted to start running my Guards with the Basilisk. For the longest time, it's been my favorite unit in Warhammer 40k (and on a side note, one I loved to use all the time in Dawn of War). I know the general basic of giving it camo netting to give it some aid and positioning it where it's relatively safe. Should I wait till I can get a battery of them to use them, or should I be ok to field the one?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Wellington99 said:

Hmm alright. Honestly I don't think I have much issue in terms of transport right now, and I have I think enough ant-infantry. What I think I'm in need of is the ability to crack heavily armored units be they the Kastelan Robots or the Battle Servitors with plasma/grav, or being able to comfortably deal with vehicles. Fortunately getting an Astropath + Psyker detachment will help with a lot of things due to psychic shriek, the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor IIRC is the best one to take that can add some power, and what with having the Recon Company, the Leman Russ's, and the option to add a Hellhound/its varients and/or a Basilisk, I should be ok in the anti-infantry department. 

Speaking of, I'm so tempted to start running my Guards with the Basilisk. For the longest time, it's been my favorite unit in Warhammer 40k (and on a side note, one I loved to use all the time in Dawn of War). I know the general basic of giving it camo netting to give it some aid and positioning it where it's relatively safe. Should I wait till I can get a battery of them to use them, or should I be ok to field the one?

Hmm...well cracking heavy armor is easiest to accomplish with melta guns. Extremely cheap and effective, but they require being very close. Vehicles and infantry alike die quickly to melta guns. 

Regarding robots, and other high toughness opponents, you could look into some snipers. Sniper rifles excel against high toughness targets, as they are an inexpensive method of wounding them and are easy to acquire. Ratling snipers are an amazing unit, if you can find the models (I don't think GW makes them anymore). By amazing, I mean for cost. It's a 30pt unit with 3x BS4 sniper rifles, infiltration and stealth. Plus the models are really short, so they are easy to hide and easy to acquire cover saves or LoS blocking terrain. That said, everything can kill them and they will flee if they are subject to a morale check (terrible leadership). Don't try to make them more survivable, just accept that they'll do their job in harrassing the enemy with sniper shots, but they die/flee if they get shot by anything. Otherwise, high toughness opponents really need missile launchers, autocannons, or lascannons to deal with them. Melta and plasma can also work. Blast weapons, like battle cannons can certainly work too, but often feel wasted if the target is a single model. Another option with those robots, and an iffy option at that, would be to engage them in melee with Bullgryns equipped with Power Mauls. S7 ap4, so they'll get their saves and it will be a tough fight, but you can actually wound them in melee with that unit (kinda unique for AM). Not a great option, but worth thinking about. 

Beware the AM psykers. They have low leadership and psychic testing is done on the leadership of the model, not the unit as with most other leadership tests, so your AM psykers will likely kill themselves with perils, the astropath in particular (a leadership 7 psyker). With bad rolling on the perils chart, the astropath can kill the entire command squad too. So I like the astropath for the bonus dice, but I'd still use his actual powers with caution. Also, if you have a commissar, he'll kill your psyker AFTER resolving the perils...

I still suggest taking AM psykers, but I wouldn't rely on their ability to cast powers, especially that astropath. Ideally, you'd have allied SM psykers that did the casting, and just used the AM psykers for extra dice.

I love the basilisk, but a word of warning, he isn't super impressive in this edition. He's not bad, just worse that your other artillery options. Plus his range is very bad for normal size games (he's amazing in apocalypse, when you play on a larger table). Your call on the camo gear, since really, he should be outside line of sight at all times. Remember that shooting at things inside his minimum range means he doesn't count as having LoS to the target, so it's resolved without subtracting BS of the firer, so there is ZERO advantage to be in line of sight against opponents that are within 36". Personally, I suggest a Hull-mounted heavy flamer, just because it "discourages" enemies from getting close. As for squadrons, I'd leave that for apocalypse only on this guy - squadrons will make it harder to hide, and they don't really make him more durable. 

[Wellington99]

1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

Hmm...well cracking heavy armor is easiest to accomplish with melta guns. Extremely cheap and effective, but they require being very close. Vehicles and infantry alike die quickly to melta guns. 

Regarding robots, and other high toughness opponents, you could look into some snipers. Sniper rifles excel against high toughness targets, as they are an inexpensive method of wounding them and are easy to acquire. Ratling snipers are an amazing unit, if you can find the models (I don't think GW makes them anymore). By amazing, I mean for cost. It's a 30pt unit with 3x BS4 sniper rifles, infiltration and stealth. Plus the models are really short, so they are easy to hide and easy to acquire cover saves or LoS blocking terrain. That said, everything can kill them and they will flee if they are subject to a morale check (terrible leadership). Don't try to make them more survivable, just accept that they'll do their job in harrassing the enemy with sniper shots, but they die/flee if they get shot by anything. Otherwise, high toughness opponents really need missile launchers, autocannons, or lascannons to deal with them. Melta and plasma can also work. Blast weapons, like battle cannons can certainly work too, but often feel wasted if the target is a single model. Another option with those robots, and an iffy option at that, would be to engage them in melee with Bullgryns equipped with Power Mauls. S7 ap4, so they'll get their saves and it will be a tough fight, but you can actually wound them in melee with that unit (kinda unique for AM). Not a great option, but worth thinking about. 

Beware the AM psykers. They have low leadership and psychic testing is done on the leadership of the model, not the unit as with most other leadership tests, so your AM psykers will likely kill themselves with perils, the astropath in particular (a leadership 7 psyker). With bad rolling on the perils chart, the astropath can kill the entire command squad too. So I like the astropath for the bonus dice, but I'd still use his actual powers with caution. Also, if you have a commissar, he'll kill your psyker AFTER resolving the perils...

I still suggest taking AM psykers, but I wouldn't rely on their ability to cast powers, especially that astropath. Ideally, you'd have allied SM psykers that did the casting, and just used the AM psykers for extra dice.

I love the basilisk, but a word of warning, he isn't super impressive in this edition. He's not bad, just worse that your other artillery options. Plus his range is very bad for normal size games (he's amazing in apocalypse, when you play on a larger table). Your call on the camo gear, since really, he should be outside line of sight at all times. Remember that shooting at things inside his minimum range means he doesn't count as having LoS to the target, so it's resolved without subtracting BS of the firer, so there is ZERO advantage to be in line of sight against opponents that are within 36". Personally, I suggest a Hull-mounted heavy flamer, just because it "discourages" enemies from getting close. As for squadrons, I'd leave that for apocalypse only on this guy - squadrons will make it harder to hide, and they don't really make him more durable. 

Well I do have two melta Scion squads that can deep strike if needed.

I was gonna end up taking the Inquisition astropath for the power and for the group of sanctioned psykers.

[Guest]

Oh, about that basilisk, and other barrage weapons. I have found that having a barrage weapon in your army is mandatory, and that goes for any army, not just AM. It's a tactical thing. Having barrage changes the opponent's deployment drastically, and has lots of applications, even if the barrage weapon is weak. For AM, I'd include at least a Mortar in every army. My marines typically bring a whirlwind. You don't need a large investment on barrage, but having them, really opens doors tactically. 

[Guest]

Recent game, my 30pts of ratlings wounded the enemy Wraithknight. People forget that wounding GCs on 6s with snipers means that snipers are always ap2 against GCs. I need more ratlings...

[generalripphook]

If you want barrage take wyverns, with ignore cover and shred and twin linked you get so many wounds down that people just fail saves. 

Don't go with a basilisk, for 25 extra points get a lemun Russ with better armor. The basi is far too inaccurate with its large minimum range. 

A manicure though....that is nice. With strength 10 it can insta kill pesky things like wraiths that are otherwise terrible to kill with lasguns

[Guest]

4 hours ago, generalripphook said:

A manicure though....that is nice.

Auto-correct is making a fool of you.

[PourSpelur]

As a guy that works with his hands, two manicures a year is pretty nice.

[Wellington99]

In regards of the Emperor's Recon Formation, would it be better to get 2 full squadrons of Armored Sentinels or to be a mix of them and Scout Sentinels? AFAIK it's either of the types to get the formation, and at least to me seems like Armored Sentinels would be the better of the two types.

[Guest]

Okay, looks like I have the barrage weapons mixed up with earlier editions. According to the mini-rulebook, the minimum range of a barrage weapon is used only when firing indirectly and you can't fire indirectly at targets within the minimum range. When firing directly (as in, with line of sight to your target) there is no penalty for shooting at a target within minimum range. Wanted to clarify the correct rules. 

[Guest]

Hey, an interesting AM option occurs. I got the Angels of Death SM supplement. In it, they have a Detachment called the "Armored Might" which is a detachment of formations focused on an entirely mechanized SM army. It even gives the option to make a vehicle the Warlord, without it being a character. I think if I were wanting to run mechanized AM, this would be a great option to balance out the AM vehicles. Predators, in particular, are a 75pt tank with AV13/11/10 and a BS4 autocannon. I'm thinking if the plan was running leman russes and rhinos, cheap tanks like the Predator, would be a huge advantage due to them being able to soak shooting that would normally be directed at the higher point AM tanks. 

At minimum requirements, it could be done with 4 Predators and a Techmarine. All the vehicles in the the detachment are immune to stunned and shaken. Techmarine also gains a bonus to repair rolls. 

[generalripphook]

6 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Hey, an interesting AM option occurs. I got the Angels of Death SM supplement. In it, they have a Detachment called the "Armored Might" which is a detachment of formations focused on an entirely mechanized SM army. It even gives the option to make a vehicle the Warlord, without it being a character. I think if I were wanting to run mechanized AM, this would be a great option to balance out the AM vehicles. Predators, in particular, are a 75pt tank with AV13/11/10 and a BS4 autocannon. I'm thinking if the plan was running leman russes and rhinos, cheap tanks like the Predator, would be a huge advantage due to them being able to soak shooting that would normally be directed at the higher point AM tanks. 

At minimum requirements, it could be done with 4 Predators and a Techmarine. All the vehicles in the the detachment are immune to stunned and shaken. Techmarine also gains a bonus to repair rolls. 

What's the formation possibilities? Shaken and stunned immunity us invaluable for the blast heavy lemun russes

 

Itd be fun to model up some AM predator versions too. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, generalripphook said:

What's the formation possibilities? Shaken and stunned immunity us invaluable for the blast heavy lemun russes

 

Itd be fun to model up some AM predator versions too. 

Maybe I wasn't clear before. The idea would have the SM as allies to the AM. Formation doesn't make them one faction. So it wouldn't solve any AM issues, except in that you'd have a much broader selection of vehicles for a fully mechanized army. For AM benefits, the idea is only that vehicles like the predator would allow the AM player to field lots of vehicles, rather than a handful. And most of the SM vehicles are pretty cheap.

Personally, I don't think the AM have enough durable cheap tanks, while the SM lack heavy tanks. Sure the Chimera is nice, but you're paying for the transport capacity. In a similar issue, the SM Land Raiders are heavy tanks, but they lack firepower because it's dedicated as a transport.  

EDIT: Hmm...I think I had the requirements a bit off before. Still pretty inexpensive, but I was thinking the Comand was required instead of the auxillery.

Armored Might

Command 0-2 Master of the Armory (Chronus, SM HQ Tank, 1 Predator, 1 Land Raider, 1 Land Raider Crusader, or 1 Land Raider Redeemer), Keepers of the Forge (1 techmarine, plus Rhino or Razorback)

Core 1-2: Armored Task Force, Land Raider Spearhead

Auxillery 1+ Suppression Force, Anti-Air Defense Force, Raptor Wing, Storm Wing, Techmarine (Techmarine or thunderfirecannon), Recon Outriders (unit of Land Speeders), Honored Ancients (unit of Dreadnoughts: Ironclad, Contemptor, Regular, or Venerable). Mechanized Infantry (1 unit from a long list of basically every SM infantry units)

Restrictions: Each unit of infantry MUST include a Transport Vehicle. 

Command Benefits:

Master of Mechanized Warfare: You can choose a vehicle from this detachment to be the warlord, even if your army includes characters. If such a vehicle is selected as the warlord, they get this Warlord Trait:

-Big Guns Never Tire: And the End of the Shooting Phase, the Warlord can nominate himself or another Vehicle from this detachment within 24". That vehicle can Immediately fire its weapons again. 

Armor of Contempt: Vehicles in this detachment ignore Stunned and Shaken results. This doesn't prevent loss of HP.

[Guest]

So for a bare detachement, you're looking at the Armored Strike Force (Minimally 3 units of 1 predator each and a techmarine) and 1 Land Speeder. So bare cost is 340pts, if my math is right. Within that, you have 1 IC (techmarine), the Land Speeder (Heavy flamer or heavy bolter at this cost), and 3 Predators (Sincle Autocannon each). And these are all independent units of 1 model. 

[generalripphook]

It'd be a fun army of spammed high Armor value.