fluger Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I realized that I don't need a detachment (duh!) to run a Ravenguard themed list. Came up with THIS! Skyhammer Formation (Ultramarines CT): 80010 Devastators: 180 + 354 MultimeltasDrop Pod10 Devastators: 180 + 354 MultimeltasDrop Pod10 Assault Marines: 185Jump Packs, 2 Flamers, Meltabombs10 Assault Marines: 185Jump Packs, 2 Flamers, Meltabombs10th Company Task Force (Ravenguard CT): 39010 Scouts: 130 4 Bolters, 5 Shotguns, Missile Launcher Meltabombs10 Scouts: 130 4 Bolters, 5 Shotguns, Missile Launcher Meltabombs10 Scouts: 130 4 Bolters, 5 Shotguns, Missile Launcher Meltabombs1st Company Strike Force (Ravenguard CT): 79510 Sternguard Veterans: 220 + 50 Drop Pod: Deathwind Launcher10 Vanguard Veterans: 270 Jump Packs, 4 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 4 Meltabombs10 Vanguard Veterans: 270 Jump Packs, 4 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 4 Meltabombs2000 pts Now, again, this isn't going to be making waves at top tables or anything, but it at least plays like Ravenguard should play. I also love that there is no HQ at all! Warlord will be one of the sarges somewhere. No big whoop. I'm cheating slightly by making the skyhammer formation Imp Fists CT, but, since they couldn't really get any benefits from the Ravenguard CT, I don't care. It's 70 guys in power armor and 30 scouts! On turn one it is 3 Drop Pods full of shooty goodness, 20 Assault Marines assaulting something, 15 Scouts up close shooting with shotguns while 15 are further back with bolters/missile launchers (they all have precision shots!), and then 20 Vanguard Vets pushing upfield. The scouts have stealth/shrouding turn one, and the Vanguard Vets have Shrouding as well. I'll have a good shot at 1st turn night fight too. It should hit like a ton of bricks on the first turn and has the resiliency to take it on the chin if I go second. It completely ignores flyers, so that's a mark against it, but I could see it doing some real work against a lot of lists with enough practice. Overall, I'm really pleased with the list in theory, and want to give it a shot on Vassal or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Also, the Veterans all cause fear and are fearless and get to pick one enemy unit to have preferred enemy against. Pretty stellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Looks fun almost all your late game anti armor is assault based, which I like. It seems like a lot of list options now can null deployment and first turn reserve rolls. However the sky hammer allows for turn two drop in case turn one has limited targets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Interesting. I can actually drop like...63 scouts on a table I think. Maybe Ill scout the codex out more when Im free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 The 10th Company Formation works OK with Ravenguard CT, I mean, as well as anything can work with Ravenguard CT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I tested it out. I havent played a Game as a Space Marine since... uh... a decade maybe? but I had to try it. I slapped a 10th Company down with a CAD. TONS o scouts coming from the walls like scary spiders. Final list had Shrike, 10 Assault Squad dudes (2 flamers, 2 Eviscerators, Grav pistol and meltabomb) plus 52 scouts (each unit w a Powerfist except the Snipers) and 6 Storms. I lost 15-14 but man was it fun. 17 units is a lot of units! The MVP's were the Power Fisting Veteran Sergeants. Shrike died like a chump but what can ya' do? After playing it, I definitely will try the Vanguards like you suggested. i racked up a ton of points. i ACHIEVED three different D3 objectives and couldn't convert them into multiple points, which was ultimately what did it but he got a couple too and couldn't convert his. I had the chance to win it though and all he had left n the board was three StromShield +melta jump guys (I forget what they were) a wounded Dante and that was about it. It went pretty darn well! The Ravenguard Winged Deliverance abiliy was really nice. Auto hits that re-roll to wound and then getting to use the jetpack in BOTH phases? Pretty awesome actually. Shrouded made me really hard to dig out the first two rounds (I went second which was the other problem, but what can ya' do?) The fact that we both null deployed pretty much made for an extra fun battle. I really ejoyed playing those scouts. Maybe not the SEXIEST unit alive but hard working ernest people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Any reason for IF tactics on the Skyhammer? Ultramarines is almost always superior, since it gives you two solid turns of rerolls for your units (plus a potential one more from Armorium Cherubs.) Are the Vanguard Veterans on foot? That seems... risky, especially for as many points as they cost. I would, at the very least, buy them a Rhino or Drop Pod or Jump Packs or something. I'm not a fan of Shotguns on Scouts; I'll take Bolters any day, since the extra shots at range will more than make up for the one turn you don't get to fire them when assaulting. Or alternately, BP/CCW if you wanna be super-focused. I haven't tried out the Missile now that they're BS4, but I still get the feeling it'll disappoint. Seems like a weird mix of weapons, even if Combat Squadding. I would try and sneak in a pair of Grav Cannons for the Devastators, just so you have a good way to handle heavy infantry and MCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Any reason for IF tactics on the Skyhammer? Ultramarines is almost always superior, since it gives you two solid turns of rerolls for your units (plus a potential one more from Armorium Cherubs.) Are the Vanguard Veterans on foot? That seems... risky, especially for as many points as they cost. I would, at the very least, buy them a Rhino or Drop Pod or Jump Packs or something. I'm not a fan of Shotguns on Scouts; I'll take Bolters any day, since the extra shots at range will more than make up for the one turn you don't get to fire them when assaulting. Or alternately, BP/CCW if you wanna be super-focused. I haven't tried out the Missile now that they're BS4, but I still get the feeling it'll disappoint. Seems like a weird mix of weapons, even if Combat Squadding. I would try and sneak in a pair of Grav Cannons for the Devastators, just so you have a good way to handle heavy infantry and MCs. I like the shotguns when you outflank and/or jump from Storms and Land Raiders or Storm Ravens. they make more sense then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Any reason for IF tactics on the Skyhammer? Ultramarines is almost always superior, since it gives you two solid turns of rerolls for your units (plus a potential one more from Armorium Cherubs.) Yeah, I hadn't considered it until someone pointed it out on Frontline. I agree, a better choice vs more targets. Are the Vanguard Veterans on foot? That seems... risky, especially for as many points as they cost. I would, at the very least, buy them a Rhino or Drop Pod or Jump Packs or something. The points are there for the jump packs, frankly, I'd never run them WITHOUT them, so I didn't put it down. Yes, they have jump packs. I'm not a fan of Shotguns on Scouts; I'll take Bolters any day, since the extra shots at range will more than make up for the one turn you don't get to fire them when assaulting. Or alternately, BP/CCW if you wanna be super-focused. I haven't tried out the Missile now that they're BS4, but I still get the feeling it'll disappoint. Seems like a weird mix of weapons, even if Combat Squadding. I just figured with how up close this list should be that the shotguns would be in double tap range usually anyway, so the bolters wouldn't really have a huge edge. I wanted to go with a gun to maximize the precision shots of the formation, but I didn't want to sacrifice shooting + assault. I would try and sneak in a pair of Grav Cannons for the Devastators, just so you have a good way to handle heavy infantry and MCs. Yeah, trying to figure out a way to snare 70 pts to make that work. Just couldn't figure out a good plan for it. Thanks for responding! I editted the OP so that the jump packs on the Van Vets are obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 If I were doing it, I would pull the Missile Launchers from the Scouts (30pts), the Deathwind Launcher from the Drop Pod (they're just kinda bad, 15pts) and one Meltabomb from a VV squad- that gives you enough to trade two Multimeltas into Grav Cannons in one squad. Bolters are better than Shotguns for a bunch of reasons- AP5 isn't always relevant, but it definitely is a thing. The ability to fire at ranges beyond 12" is also key, since it won't be uncommon to need to finish off a more distant target or have part of the squad be out of range for whatever reason. They also have a longer threat range, as you can only kill what's within your weapon range- so if the whole squad is within 12" of two models, the Shotgun can only kill two things, but the Bolter can kill anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Honestly I dont think the range is going to come up often enough to matter. Scouts with Sotguns are assault troops. So if they aren't assaulting or move+running to seize points thats kinda on the general in question. But the bolter is more useful when you're using them to assault. So in Flugers list, Id consolidate the Shotguns into one unit and bolters in another. mixing their prupose, given casualties, might not really be worth it. CCW and Shotguns makes sense though. THAT mix seems logical to me also. Not the bolters nd shotguns though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 If I were doing it, I would pull the Missile Launchers from the Scouts (30pts), the Deathwind Launcher from the Drop Pod (they're just kinda bad, 15pts) and one Meltabomb from a VV squad- that gives you enough to trade two Multimeltas into Grav Cannons in one squad. Deathwind Missiles are one of those weapons that's either amazing or horribly lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Deathwind is only good if you have 15 points spare or get your drop pods for free. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Deathwind is only good if you have 15 points spare or get your drop pods for free. :) Free drop pods still have to pay for upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Deathwind is only good if you have 15 points spare or get your drop pods for free. :)Yeah I had spare points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I think instead I can drop two Sternguard, and the Deathwind and get two Gravcannons and swap the bolters for sniper rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Just wondering, why ultramarines and ravenguard to represent ravenguard. Sounds confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Most units in the Skyhammer get no benefit at all from being Raven Guard, because their tactic is s****y and poorly-thought out. The ASM do technically get a bonus cover save on the first turn, but since they are probably either locked in combat or off the board when it applies, that's essentially nonexistent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 SImply because the Ravenguard CT is almost completely worthless for the Skyhammer formation. To whit, you get no bonuses for shrouding if you disembark on turn 1, so the Devys get nothing. The formation itself allows for re-roll on charge distance, so the Ravenguard bonus of using jetpacks in both phases is unnecessary. The only thing that the Ravenguard CT would do is give the jumpers a re-roll on their hammer of wrath hits. That's pretty negligible. As well, after the 1st turn, the difference between Ravenguard and no CT is basically the same unless the unit is a jump infantry. So, really, having the one-shot UM CT is basically identical to the Ravenguard and it helps them on that critical first turn drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Most units in the Skyhammer get no benefit at all from being Raven Guard, because their tactic is s****y and poorly-thought out. The ASM do technically get a bonus cover save on the first turn, but since they are probably either locked in combat or off the board when it applies, that's essentially nonexistent. Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Scooped by AP! Realistically, I'm trying to shine a turd with the Ravenguard CT. I think the jump infantry part of it is on point (the only drawback is that SM jumpers kinda suck), but they should have built in stealth all game OR precision strikes/shots. The fact that their ability is a only for first turn is really dumb, and when you compare it to the other CTs, it's just close to garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 SImply because the Ravenguard CT is almost completely worthless for the Skyhammer formation. To whit, you get no bonuses for shrouding if you disembark on turn 1, so the Devys get nothing. The formation itself allows for re-roll on charge distance, so the Ravenguard bonus of using jetpacks in both phases is unnecessary. The only thing that the Ravenguard CT would do is give the jumpers a re-roll on their hammer of wrath hits. That's pretty negligible. As well, after the 1st turn, the difference between Ravenguard and no CT is basically the same unless the unit is a jump infantry. So, really, having the one-shot UM CT is basically identical to the Ravenguard and it helps them on that critical first turn drop. Do the pods get the chapter tactics this edition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Free drop pods still have to pay for upgrades. Right, but a 15 point deathwind pod is worth it. a 50 point one probably isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Anyway, should include that FW ravenguard character from IA 8 (page 112). Totally ITC legal. He's a TH jump infantry model for 155pts who makes your assault squads troops slots instead of fast slots (if primary detachment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Right, but a 15 point deathwind pod is worth it. a 50 point one probably isn't. I might consider the Deathwind if it was a free swap. I would never pay points for it- it's simply too short of range and too likely to scatter onto your own models that just disembarked. Do the pods get the chapter tactics this edition? Only Dreadnoughts get the Chapter Tactics rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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