Guest Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 I might consider the Deathwind if it was a free swap. I would never pay points for it- it's simply too short of range and too likely to scatter onto your own models that just disembarked. I've bought them a few times. It's decent, but nothing special. It's strong against horde armies like tyranids (gaunts) and orks, but is unfortunately lacking against MEQ, mid-AV vehicles, and so on. Much better off with those FW Deathstorm pods (never fielded these), if looking for pod-based shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 The FW Deathstorm is a legit threat; I've never tested them, but as part of a Pod-based strategy I feel like they might have some merit. But the regular Deathwind launcher is just... really underwhelming against most targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 The FW Deathstorm is a legit threat; I've never tested them, but as part of a Pod-based strategy I feel like they might have some merit. But the regular Deathwind launcher is just... really underwhelming against most targets. I think my decent = your underwhelming.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Could very well be; everyone describes things differently and has different measuring sticks they use to judge things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Was thinking about this more in relation to the article on Frontline and came up with this instead: Combined Arms Detachment (Raptors CT): Lias Issodon: 175 8 Honor Guard: 210 10 Scouts: 140 8 Bolters, 1 Missile Launcher Combi-grav, Meltabombs 10 Scouts: 140 8 Bolters, 1 Missile Launcher Combi-grav, Meltabombs 10 Scouts: 140 8 Bolters, 1 Missile Launcher Combi-grav, Meltabombs 10 Scouts: 190 8 Bolters, 1 Missile Launcher Combi-grav, Meltabombs Land Speeder Storm: Multimelta Fire Raptor: 220 1st Company Strike Force (Ravenguard CT): 780 10 Sternguard Veterans: 220 + 35 Drop Pod 10 Vanguard Veterans: 270 Jump Packs, 4 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 4 Meltabombs 10 Vanguard Veterans: 270 Jump Packs, 4 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 4 Meltabombs 1995 pts Lias comes stock with the strategic trait that lets him and 3 units get infiltrate. That goes to the Vanguard Vets and the Honor Guard. In this version, the scouts have ob-sec and the neat raptors tactic of being able to fire a single heavy shot with rending with their bolters. The Fire Raptor I'd keep with the Quad Bolters as it works out better against most targets, but I could easily switch it to Autocannons though. Quick question on Combat Squads. Could I use the infiltrate ability on both units of Van Vets but then combat squad them after they infiltrate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Not sure now. But last book warlord traits came just before combat squading. They are treated as separate units only after the the time combat squads happens. Gaining infiltrate during deployment would be after combat squading based on previous timing. Sorry no book handy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 You have to split into Combat Squads before determining Warlord Traits. I know Issodon has a fixed Trait, but that says to me that you also need to Combat Squad before applying the effects of Warlord Traits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Yep 188 says this, I figured you would not get the two for one infiltration. Timing is different but my gut was right thanks for the timing westy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Hmm, not too shabby, actually. Scouts with the Raptor tactic are pretty rad, as you get free almost-Sniper Rifles with them. I also like the distributed threat of the Combi-Gravs here, and Lias's tactic is pretty perfect for forcing the VV on the enemy, though they still suffer from being not particularly durable for their cost. I think going Autocannons on your Fire Raptor is the right choice- you need more AT shooting (as you have very little to start with), so while they are less impressive than the Chaos version's double-Reapers, they are still going to provide a much-needed functionality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 You have to split into Combat Squads before determining Warlord Traits. I know Issodon has a fixed Trait, but that says to me that you also need to Combat Squad before applying the effects of Warlord Traits. OK, but what about units that deploy then split, like coming out of a Rhino or Drop Pod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Hmm, not too shabby, actually. So happy you think it even has a chance! LOL Scouts with the Raptor tactic are pretty rad, as you get free almost-Sniper Rifles with them. Yeah, and the new boost to BS they are a nice threat. Plus, they can still double tap against soft targets if needed. Also, Honor Guard come with Bolters, so they can also do this. Lias's tactic is pretty perfect for forcing the VV on the enemy, though they still suffer from being not particularly durable for their cost. Yeah, it's about the best way to use them and they still aren't even that exciting against wide swathes of the game. I really like that formation for getting them fearless and fear is lolzy, but I can easily have 3 units within 12" to lower leadership, so that's neat. I think going Autocannons on your Fire Raptor is the right choice- you need more AT shooting (as you have very little to start with), so while they are less impressive than the Chaos version's double-Reapers, they are still going to provide a much-needed functionality. Yeah, I keep waffling, but S7 is just more useful for dealing with vehicles, though the increase in shots makes the HB option better against MCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 OK, but what about units that deploy then split, like coming out of a Rhino or Drop Pod? Combat Squads doesn't work that way anymore. Now they all have to Split or not before the Game starts, but the two halves of the Squad can get in the same Transport together, as an exception to the usual limit of 1 Squad per Transport. I think the advantage of the Autocannon against Vehicles is worth the tradeoff against MCs in this build. You'll just have to be a bit careful and think ahead to deal with bunches of FMCs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 OK, but what about units that deploy then split, like coming out of a Rhino or Drop Pod? Doesn't work that way anymore. You split at the beginning of the game, period, but have a special exception allowing both "halves" to get into the same transport. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophecy Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Why not take the BA angels force with the vets and sternguard instead. You need to pay for the raven but all the sweet upgrades are free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Why not take the BA angels force with the vets and sternguard instead. You need to pay for the raven but all the sweet upgrades are free. The Jump Packs and Meltabombs don't come free, so he'd need to scrape out another 140 Points or so, and he wouldn't be able to Infiltrate the Vanguard Vets and have them Shrouded on Turn 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Why not take the BA angels force with the vets and sternguard instead. You need to pay for the raven but all the sweet upgrades are free. 1. If you factor in the cost of the StormRaven and the reduced cost of power weapons on Van Vets in the SM dex, I'm only saving 95 pts 2. The whole point of this exercise is to use the Ravenguard CT to it's maximum benefit, so I'd want at least ONE formation with that CT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophecy Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Seems like a better trade to me. Lose a scout squad get better vets and a raven. I dunno you said it was a turd I'm just trying to optimize without feces is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 The requirement that the Sanguine Wing start in Reserves makes it really unwieldy. As-is, Fluger's got pretty good odds on a Turn 2 Charge with those Vets if he goes first. With a Sanguine Wing, there's no way they're Charging before Turn 3, it could easily be later, and they're going to have to endure a Turn of fire without the benefit of Shrouded. Plus, they're vulnerable to Interceptor, and can potentially Mishap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Fluger one little bit to add about the sharing the transport for combat squads. They have to be from the same base squad. Just trying to save you the question of can I get two Melta guns or something like that by sharing differently. Also it works on all transports not just their dedicated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Interesting. I can actually drop like...63 scouts on a table I think. Maybe Ill scout the codex out more when Im free. Heh... SCOUT the codex out... heh.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 The requirement that the Sanguine Wing start in Reserves makes it really unwieldy. As-is, Fluger's got pretty good odds on a Turn 2 Charge with those Vets if he goes first. With a Sanguine Wing, there's no way they're Charging before Turn 3, it could easily be later, and they're going to have to endure a Turn of fire without the benefit of Shrouded. Plus, they're vulnerable to Interceptor, and can potentially Mishap. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head, there's a reason this is set up the way it is. I like that BA formation, but I'd make a different army to add it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Combined Arms Detachment (Raptors CT): Lias Issodon: 175 8 Honor Guard: 210 10 Scouts: 140 8 Bolters, 1 Missile Launcher Combi-grav, Meltabombs 10 Scouts: 140 8 Bolters, 1 Missile Launcher Combi-grav, Meltabombs 10 Scouts: 190 8 Bolters, 1 Missile Launcher Combi-grav, Meltabombs Land Speeder Storm: Multimelta 10 Scouts: 190 8 Bolters, 1 Missile Launcher Combi-grav, Meltabombs Land Speeder Storm: Multimelta Fire Raptor: 220 1st Company Strike Force (Ravenguard CT): 780 10 Sternguard Veterans: 220 + 35 Drop Pod 9 Vanguard Veterans: 243 Jump Packs, 3 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 4 Meltabombs 9 Vanguard Veterans: 243 Jump Packs, 3 Power Mauls, 2 Power Axes, 4 Meltabombs 1991 pts Thought about it a bit more, and because I can't combat squad the Van Vets, I'd rather shave a guy off each unit and add another LS Storm with multimelta. Leaves me with 9 pts left over for 2k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Nothing short of complete heresy. Without Shrike there is no Raven Guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Shrike is nearly unplayable with his poorly worded rules. I also don't like combat characters as much as I like force multipliers. Lias plays more like how I think Ravenguard SHOULD play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Heresy Fluger. Just.... Heresy. There is a right way and a wrong way to lose with this force. Why go down that dark path. Nothing good lies down it. (and it occurs to me that those who dont know me well may not realize i am totally tongue in cheek here. But seriously: heresy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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