fluger

Carnifexes definitely got love in this dex.  

DA psykers get divination too, so don't need to ally for it. That said, what are you shooting that needs 10 TL missiles? Secondary weapons too...

 

Guardsmen blob?  

I think you'd want some terms or horms in there to round it out.  3 units of 15 terms is 180 pts...  

They can be different now.  At least, that's how it reads in Spanish.  

Women LOVE beards.  

I stand corrected.  

I still think Lictors have a place in the elites.  But, yeah, Zoeys and Venoms are looking better and better for Synapse and Synergy.  

Fluger, convince me to take starcannons. My thought with the lances is, while I have plenty of high strength shooting in this list, I don't have much to reliably take out AV 13 or 14. I'll annihilate light vehicles, but for the heavy stuff, I just have the Fire Prism. Against TEQ, I have volume of high strength fire, with some armor-ignoring shenanigans (D-scythe, monofilimant). If I take the hornets, they'll be putting out 8 S8 AP2 shots. 8 more S6 AP2 shots from the starcannons would be great, but doesn't really add to what I already have. I'm thinking that the 4 S8 AP1 Lance shots can still be effective in an anti-TEQ role, but also fill a hole in my army.

Quickly, Bright Lances are only AP2, same as starcannons.  

I run a list with 3 wave serpents with TL BL and under-slung shuricannon.  For me, having the starcannons gives me more mid-strength shooting with AP2, which, frankly, you can never have enough of.  

I have a unit of 3 war walkers with dual starcannons.  I stole the idea from Lord Hanaur after running dual scatter lasers for ages (including 5th edition).  I can run the numbers for you, but the AP2 really helps against vehicles with the bonus on the chart (offset by fewer hits, of course), but really helps clear out infantry and MCs of a variety of stripes.  Think of Riptides and Broadsides for instance.  Being able to come in on a flank via outflank or just hide, move-shoot-run to cover with that 36" range REALLY helps you have a chance against those nasties.  

Fluger, the reason I didn't do that would make it 100 percent pointless NOT to field the supplement. The point is never to invalidate the maim dex.

 

I do like your suggestion on keeping it simple.

 

No comment on Sniper rifles on Devs eh? I think that would be incredibly fun.

Well, it's not like people are lining up to make ravenguard lists right now.  The only effective way to even benefit from their CT is to use the scout move, which you can do with Khan-led WS better.  But if you wanted to run an all mech force with scouting, you could just not use Khan on a bike and do it with RG CT.  

So, the point was to actually get them to use JUMP PACKS in a RG force.  

The sniper rifles on Devs is definitely interesting, fluffy, and sensible, the only drawback is that there are no models for it.  

How would what you are describing work?  They couldn't shoot, then spin and disembark the unit after shooting.  

Your strategy that you are employing would function fine, but if you moved up so close that a unit of d-scythe wrathgaurd could disembark and then shoot at the target, you are certainly within assault range of that unit.  And, while not all units can threaten with assault, wave serpents are highly susceptible to krak grenade toting...anythings.  

The VEs allow Jim to move up and disembark as far as possible and create the greatest possible threat range for those units, while simultaneously not forcing him to expose his rear armor.  

The biggest advantage of running a squadron of typhoons is you can get prescience on them and really hit hard.  

Argh.

Edit:  This was in regards to the Tervigon not being a Warlord.  How stupid.  

Only thing I'm confused about is that vectored engines help you NOT expose rear armor by allowing you to spin around after shooting, so you SHOULDN'T be exposed.  Curious as to your thoughts here.  

Glad to hear there's a good showing in Medford and such.  :D

How 'bout stealer shock?  

OK, after looking at the Nids in person and really delving into the dex, this is where I would go with 2k for Nids

It's been my experience that, at high levels of play, the difference between a competitive list with some less optimized choices and a purely optimized only-the-best list is negligible. At that level of play, it's more about how well each player can respond to their opponent. 

Indeed.  I see where you are going with most of this list, I see what you are going for.  I don't think it really needs too much beyond tweaking to get where you want it to be.  I think you'll find that this will play like your wood elves, but on crack.  

I like the idea of the Ravenguard supplement that you propose, but I think I'd simply alter the main Codex CT to include jump pack troops, but NOT units in vehicles; keep the stealth on turn one and keep the jump pack buff.  

Just like how the Sentinels of Terra altered how Bolter Drill works, this would both give the Ravenguard what we all wanted, SCOUTING jump pack troops.  It also takes away scouting vehicles which should be a White Scars thing.  

I like all your characters and items as well.  I think I'd keep it simple and have a sarge upgrade that gives a single Tactical squad infiltrate.  I'd also have an ITEM that gives hit and run, maybe a jump pack?  

Wow... I love this forum. No negative responses to criticism. This is so much better than dakka. =) But yea southern Oregons meta is a little more cutthroat. Even non-power gamers tend to run efficient list.  

 

Ordo is rad, no question.  Just curious as to where in Southern Oregon you're playing such top-flight generals?  

 

So the reason I say its not a hard list, and that's fine, is you have a lot of points tied up in units that don't need that many points. Or just bad units themselves. Example, you have 800+ points in two troop choices that will die in two rounds of shooting. Wraithguard by themselves are bad, way overcosted and fragile. But if you have a wraithknight or 2 then your spreading out the target priority.

 

I really disagree on wraithguard being fragile and bad.  In cover they are going to be pretty tough for a LOT of units to dislodge.  Also, the way JMGraham has loaded out his waveserpents means that they can stay ensconced for a good time until they bust out when needed.  They are a good counter point to the jetbikes which are truly fragile, but highly mobile.  

 

What are warp spiders job? Harassment and transport popping. But you only need one or two units of 5 to do. They then spend the rest of the time shooting at troops.

 

They do lots of work.  Guiding them makes them fairly functional as anti-air (check out some of the Frontline Gaming bat reps about this).  Units of 8 are really deadly.  They aren't just harassment, they are straight up short range murder dealers.  My unit of 8 is consistently a high damage dealer.  

 

I love fireprisms. They just don't do anything. You have better options elsewhere.

 

Agree somewhat.  Blasts can be frustrating sometimes.  

 

Farseers just need a bike. Nothing else. They twin-link two units, then hide until its time to contest. Mantle of the laughing god is amazing on a autarch with a bike and laser lance. He is great at hitting troops, kill three or four then running across the board and murdering more unsuspecting guardsmen. 

 

It isn't too much of an investment to make him REALLY hard to kill, which, considering how exposed he will be in general, is a great thing.  Being able to move out into open and be more reasonably capable of survival is nice.  

 

War walkers are just...meh. Hornets do there job better.

 

Again, I don't know about hornets, but war walkers are great.  Move shoot run is great at keeping them out of LOS from nasty stuff, outflank can be great, and their decent long range plus their ability to move and then run and then shoot gives you a brutal threat range.  They are great units to guide/prescience as well.  

 

You also have no anti-air. Which if you had 3-4 wave serpents could just rely on mass shooting. Or, even though they are made of cardboard and duct-tape, crimson hunters. They are lethal to flyers if you avoid intercepter and go 2nd. Still with vector dancer they are the most agile flyer out there.

 

I think the warpspiders with guide/prescience are a good answer to this.  As well, not a ton of flyers present any real threat to the majority of the list outside of night scythes due to objective grabbing shenanigans later.  

 

And if you were close-ish to my area I would love to play you. I've been dying to have my semi-fluffy sons of Medusa see some action.

 

JMGraham is not only an amazing painter, and totally fun to play against, he also happens to have an extraordinarily keen mind for generalship.  He was murderous with Wood Elves in 7th ed Fantasy, and I can see the way his agile mind would mesh well with a dance, shoot, strike the weakpoints type of army like this.  Honestly, everyone in the world should have the privilege of playing him once in their life.  

As far as getting tabled in 4 turns, I highly doubt it.  First of all, I expect JMGraham will use reserves and LOS blocking to his advantage to basically be out of sight for as long as possible, then leverage his mobility and durability and hard-striking potential to clobber weak points and still stay as out of danger as possible.  

[1997 points total]

 

(155)  Farseer + Jetbike + Mantle of the Laughing God

(70)    SpiritSeer

 

Solid overall, I can see a skilled opponent making lots of hay with a laughingbikeseer.  

 

(51)    3 Jetbikes

(51)    3 Jetbikes

(51)    3 Jetbikes

 

Jetbikes are amazing for what they do, no complains here.

 

(210)  5 Wraithguard + D-scythes

(160)  Wave Serpent +(Scatter or Bright Lance) + Holofield + Spirit Stones + Vectored Engines

 

(210)  5 Wraithguard + D-scythes

(160)  Wave Serpent +(Scatter or Bright Lance) + Holofield + Spirit Stones + Vectored Engines

 

I think there are too many points on the wave serpents in general, but I see the rationale, if you get a stun/shaken, then the guys inside can't shoot when they get out, which would be brutal.  The vectored engines allow you to push forward really far which helps extend their paltry range.  As nasty as d-scythes are though, I think you'd be better served with the normal shooting weapon instead for even more range.  Just a preference thing.  

 

(177)  8 Warpspiders + Exarch + Spinneret Rifle

(177)  8 Warpspiders + Exarch + Spinneret Rifle

(190)  2 Hornets + Pulse Lasers + Holofield

 

I have no idea what hornets are, I'm assuming some kind of Forgeworld thing that is getting let in for some reason.  I really don't like FW stuff, so I'll drop that, as to the warpspiders, I wouldn't ever take an exarch on them because if you roll doubles on the move, then you lose a random model.  If you lose the exarch, that is sad.  Also, the spinneret doesn't help you do much that the rest of your list already does, shave points here.  A unit of 8 stock warp spiders are golden.  They'll probably be on the receiving end of buffs from the laughingbikeseer.  That's nice.  

 

(175)  Fire Prism + Holofield + Crystal Targeting Matrix+Shuriken Cannon

(160)  2 Warwalkers + 2 bright lances

 

Can't recommend war walkers with dual starcannons enough.  Been using a unit of 3 for a while now and they are straight up brutal.  Fire prism by itself is less sexy IMO.  Talk to me about the CTM, what's the plan with this?  

What is a hornet?  

Yeah, HS is the new Elites.  

Played against Pumpkinhead yesterday and saw him play against Koyote as well.  My thoughts are that synapse is a BIG deal.  

Deathleaper was really nasty IMO as well.  He lowered my farseer to a Ld7 psyker, and I didn't get a power off in the first three turns...  

Then there's this:  "Speaking about the codex today, a few things fall into place. One of the older members of the Stoke(UK) branch is regular play tester for the pre release codex's as he has a number of armies they use when the designers want to try out their rules. Well it turns out he basically advised the design team that the NID codex was far too week and he basically walked over their armies, so they kept adding and changing the rules until it became such a mess that they stopped play testing the book. The white dwarf article was done in the released format because it became obvious that things did not work. They even toned down the riptides load out and tailored the report so it looked as if the new NID's could stand up to the best units in the game. it was a lie.

"They basically ran out of time to publish the codex. To make it right, they would likely have to start over again, and the old one was already way behind.

"So somewhere along the line someone high up forced the release, the Models were obviously ready and the penny counters wanted a return, as it costs to sculpt, and they don't want molds sat there for another 6-12 months. The inventory was in supply or on order, so it had to be pushed out.

"Add to this that the reason we don't have the doom or parasite or pod was a hang over of the chapter-house law suit. When that went to court GW decided that they would not be making these models as the cost of the molds and time was too expensive. So the safest way to remove influence from chapter-house, was to make any of the disputed models obsolete. Remove them from the codex.

"We already had the design team at Nottingham give interviews saying they would put right the 5th edition codex, i wonder what they are going to say this time."

One thought - Would it be weird to drop one Fire prism and replace it with a Wraithlord? I'd love some flexibility for assault, and with the Iyanden book I could make him my warlord to better leverage the Warlord traits and Spirit Marks and what not. It would be the one painfully slow piece in an otherwise blazing army, but it might be cool. Twin bright lances for anti-armour, with good assault ability. Would he stick out as a sore thumb compared to how fast everyone else is?

 

It would be slightly out of place, but not so much so, the real issue is he's got a HUGE target on his head now.  Even T8 and 3+ armor and ideally cover isn't going to make him last long against dedicated firepower.  With the bonus of getting StWL, he's going to have to hide more than snipe.