MexicanNinja

I haven't seen the rules for current archeon, so couldn't make an educated guess.

Again, I fully understand your point.  However, which rule is the specific rule?  The first rule covers what restricts a unit once a character charges out.  As a character you then follow the specific rules for characters.  There is no clear wording in this aspect of the game when looking at multiple characters in a unit.

As gamers, we are all able to say, "what I believe" or "how I view this" but there is no rule to back it up unless you can show your opponent what rule backs up your statement.  Being the rules-as-written gamer that I am, I don't see how you could tell your opponent with certainty that more than one character isn't allowed to declare a charge out of a unit.

Again, the unit follows the rules for the unit portion and then the characters follow the specific rules for characters charging out of a unit.  Being that the character is, well, a character, that character would by all means rules-as-written be allowed to declare a charge out of the unit they are in.

How do I come up with this conclusion?  There is a specific rule which is directed towards units and then there is a specific rule directed towards characters.

Sweet, my long fangs seem to have misplaced their missiles.

Another thing you have to realize, is that you are purchasing a dual kit sprue here.  Yes, you are only assembling 1 unit from the sprues but you still end up with a ton of bitz for the later models.

In all honesty, you could purchase a dark eldar kit and produce very nice looking sisters of slaughter.

Here is the logic as I see it:

 

1. Multiple characters together form a single unit. (page 99 top paragraph)

2. Rule states that a character can charge out of a unit (page 101) but the unit cannot declare a charge after that.

3. Since the remaining characters make up the unit that is left after the first character declares a charge, they are not allowed to declare a charge.

I fully understand what you are saying.  However, the situation that arrises is that since the rest of them are still characters, and following the additional rule allowing a character to declare a charge out of a unit, you could declare a charge with more than one character.  There is nothing in the MRB which states only one character may declare a charge out of a unit.

I guess, the end result would be, that all but the last character would be able to declare a charge.  However, this could still be argued either way because:

1) Yes, the character is still considered to be a unit

2) Yes, the character still follows the rules for charging out of a unit

Unfortunately, the special characters subject is something that splits the crowd.  I love special characters, believe they add extremely awesome things to the game, and should be encouraged to use in your armies.  Other, however, don't share those same views and/or opinions and as such, more often than not, they aren't allowed to the majority of events I've been to.

What are your thoughts on ripperdactyles?  I think point-for-point they are great.  I have yet to have a unit of terrordons give me any trouble (since 6th ed).

...MN: Well, by your wording, multiple characters can't charge independently. They join together, which forms a unit, yes? Thus all rules that apply to a unit applies to the unit of characters unless there is a proven exception. I haven't been able to find anything that exempts characters from unit rule restrictions even if the unit is only characters.

 

Do you have a page reference or a FAQ I could look at?

So, this is a greyish area and may be looked at by both sides.  I don't have the book in front of me; however, I can tell you that I am referring to pages 96-99.  I want to say that on page 97, towards the top of the page it describes a character, or characters, joining a unit.  Then on, I believe, page 99 it talks about a character charging out of a unit.  Yes, a character is able to charge out of a unit but then the unit is unable to declare a charge.

It's at this point that the clear point of the rule is faded.  It just says that a character may declare a charge out of a unit.  It doesn't state that only 1 character may do so.  This may be interpreted many ways.

Complicated example:

You have a unit consisting of 4 paladins.  Each of them are characters.  Paladin 1 declares a charge, Paladin 2 declares a charge, Paladin 3 declares a charge, Paladin 4 declares a charge.  According to the rule stating that a character is able to declare a charge out of the unit they are with they may all declare a seperate charge action.

I will say, again, that seeing a unit comprised of all characters isn't something you see.  I have yet to see an all character unit in 8th edition.

The dragon is nearly complete. I have to finish the base (waiting for the texture to dry). After I add the snow I will post some pics of my army.

1: No.

When a character joins a unit, any movement restrictions on the character are shared by the unit. Likewise any movement restrictions on the unit is shared by the character. As soon as the first character has declared a charge, the unit now has the restriction of Cannot Charge. This restriction on the unit is now shared by the characters.

 

2: Yes

 

3: Rarely. Most armies have more interesting Arcane items and a lot of armies don't take multiple wizards.

1. If a unit is consited of only characters, each one can declare a charge against different units. The rules state that a character is abale to charge out of a unit but the unit isn't able to declare a charge. If the unit is nothing but characters they are able to declare individual charges (since they all fall under the rule for characters charging out of a unit). This is a rare case and isn't seen often or at all, for the most part. The rule isn't clearly defined for units consisting of only characters.

Yes, there are reasons to chose them. Lances on the charge are good for trying to

punch a hole through a smaller (3-4 unit size) of monstrous cav before they get to your lines. And they can punch though other cav as well. Do damage to monsters. Lances are effective, but knowing when to charge is the trick.

Flails are the tricky one. It depends on the unit, what the role of the unit is going to be, and how big the unit is going to be. Flails are great for a first turn punch to the face, but in the upcoming rounds (when the models revert to basic S) you need to ensure you did a ton of damage in the first round. I like flails though and if I still played empire I would be using a horde of flaggallents, if I played chaos I would take a horde of mauraders with flails and mark of khorne.

The thing to remember when picking a lance, all cav have different strengths and weaknesses. I.e. empire come with a 1+, lizardmen can hold the line better and pack a good save, dragon princes are only good on the charge (same with silver helms), blood knights and dark elf cav are great on the charge. So, you kind of need to know what your cav can do.

Hellbrone for the win then. She beats ironhide to the dirt. Put her on a cauldron and in a pack of executioneers. She brings up to 10 S10 attacks with ASF, is able to give the executioneers frenzy, and can kill over 2 ranks of models on the charge.

Yes, both hellbrone and throgg are good, however karl has hitting power as well as staying power. Before units are takin into consideration.

Today's project begins with a black dragon. Depending on time, I may start on the chariots as well.

I believe Karl Franz is the best named character as he has many options to be fielded and with ghal maraz ignores armour and does multiple wounds.

Virtue of heroism is significantly better against mc/mi. 6's to wound ignore armour saves and kills a model outright for any 6 rolled to wound.

When you declare a character charging out of a unit he is doing it indivdually. The most common of these is seen wth a chaos character charging out of a unit of warriors on a daemonic steed or the doombll from the minotaur unit. Once the character has declared the charge he is acting independently. You rarely see units of characters.

As for the bret builg for killinh monsters, chaos lords, mc, mi, etc. Nothing is better than virtue of heroism. Again, it has been faq'd to give the character heroic killing blow.

If you have a unit consiting of nothing but characters, each one can declare a charge against a different unit or individually against the same one.

The problem with feedback scroll is it's 50 points and doesn't stop the spell. I use it every once in awhile, it works half the time.

If you have a magic weapon (any type including a lance) you mst always use a magic weapon in close combat.

Plant your trebs in the back of your corner and if an emeny dedicates something to close in on it then most likely that unit won't be doing much of anything else.

If you're taking a lord always give him virtue of heroism. It gives you heroic killing blow know and that takes out monsters and super characters. I'd them suggest the +3 attack sword from the MRB or the heartwood lance. Potion of foolhardiness is a good option as well.

Cool, thanks.

What kind of foam and glue did you use? I am going to try my first disply board this year.

I just listened to Bad Dice Daily 359. Start at minute 1.48 to go.

 

He rules a when there is ASL and ASF vs. a model with ASF. The ASF model goes first and re-rools if the initiative is equal or greater than his opponent. The ASF/ASL strikes at Initiative order.

 

This is how it is ruled for the gts as well.

Ok, the "newest" list has bee modified in the original post. However, there is 1 thing I need from the ordo community. I need to know if the last of my points should be used for 2 units of 5 harpies or 2 reaper bolt throwers. I'm going to wait for at least 7 votes from the community here. I am going to let all of you decide on the harpies or bolt throwers.

It really depends. You obiously don't want to single charge 10 cav into a unit of 20 plus (unless you are certain you will win the grind). Now, help them out with a supporting charge unit like a chariot or monster riding character and now the outcome is much more in your favor.

Also, cavalry can be extremely hard to shift when fighting units who are S4 or lower. They have really good saves and can tie up a unit of 20 dudes for a round or two just by making armour saves.

The next question is what army is the cav coming from? 5 chaos knights with mark of khorne will slaughter most units of 20 plus in a few turns because of the amount of attacks they produce, solid S after the charge, and incredible armour save.

Cavalry is still very good. They are a bit harder to use in 8th (they were to overpowered in 7th) but when used correctly they can have game changing impacts. I guess if you narrowed down the type of cav, I could help you more.

Well, I'm back to the drawing board for the OFCC list.  I don't want 4 units of dark riders and the araknarok just doesn't fit the theme at all.  Plus, I really want to put that cocatrice in this list somehow.  It's chaosy and fits the theme I'm going for.  List to follow at some point today.

Yes, dark elves without great weapons get to re-roll against white lions and swordsmasters.  So far, you two are the only ones who seem to think otherwise.  This has never been an issue in any game I've played.

You ask, how could WL strike at I5 and be S6.  Easy, the rule says so.  Neither apply and the model strikes at their initiative value.  They benefit from neither rule.