MexicanNinja

BSB on foot, Master on Dark Pegasus, and Supreme Sorceress on Dark Pegasus

Black Guard and Cold One Chariots

Manticore and Black Dragon

Eric, I could show up at 2 for a game.  You down for another match with the new Dark Elf list?

I worked on my army lastnight.  Here's what I did, while watching the Heat take it to the Warriors.  Oh, and go Clippers!

1) With some simple conversions suggested to me by Ruger, I outfitted 2 maurader horsemen from each unit with repeater crossbows.

2) Primed 15 horsemen

3) Started assembling the warlocks

Tonight I will assemble the last 10 horsemen, finish assembling the warlocks, and prime them all.  I am also going to be working on my BSB and Dreadlord.

For the BSB, I am using an old dark rider model.  I am also going to try to kit bash the following:

Old Dark Rider, Corsair, new dark rider (cloak piece), and see how this turns out for a BSB.  I am hoping for solid results but as I don't have the experience with major conversions, this may not get the end result I am looking for.

I am then going to work on very minor conversions for the Malekith model.  I like the model as a whole and I am going to use him as my Dreadlord.  Not sure what I am going to do with him though.  All he really needs is a shield and then the conversion is complete and will be WYSIWYG.

I then have 2 CoK's to paint.  I am also working on cutting some of the mounts off their current bases.  I need to reglue the mounts to the bases so that the unit ranks up properly.

All-in-all, I am extremely happy with the progress of this army.  Once I complete the modeling/painting portion of my cavalry army, I will go back and finish my corsairs.  These will need to be cut and rebased as well.  In the end I will have the following completed and ready for play:

Dreadlord/Supreme Sorceress w/Black Dragon

Master w/Manticore

Dreadlord/Master w/Dark Pegasus

Supreme Sorceress/Sorceress w/Dark Pegasus

Supreme Sorceress/Sorceress w/Dark Steed

Dreadlord/Master w/Cold One (this model is currently being used at the CoK unit champion)

Assassin

21 Dreadspears with a unit filler (old Cauldron of Blood Statue) which allows me to get them to 35

24 Corsairs

5 Old Dark Riders

30 Marauder Horsemen (used as Dark Riders) for my Northern Wastes theme

10 Cold One Knights

2 Cold One Chariots

1 War Hydra (I need to find a suitable wash for this model so I can ink and then highlight it)

5 Shades (1 is represented by an assassin model)

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers

5 Warlocks

Once all of these are in line I may just add to the current ranks with the following:

Cauldron of Blood

30 Executioners

Dreadlord on Cold One

3 Masters on Cold Ones w/great weapons

2 Bolt Throwers

10 Harpies

5 Warlocks

I finally found my camera lastnight.  I will be taking pictures of my current painted models/units and post them on here tonight.

To bring it in a little the OP is not looking for a competitive list, he just wants to make it a challenge.

 

So is 40 spider riders competetive? No, but it sounds like fun and would love to see that many spiders on the board. He can also run 10 wide no problem becuase those things ignore all building and forests. Movement will not be an issue.

 

Chexmix, I say run that list a few times with your freind and see how it does. If you have issues come back here and maybe we can help tweek it.

Obviously, this is not a competitive list.  Is it a challenge?  I don't think so.  They don't ignore buildings and forests, they are just able to move through and over them.  A smart, or clever, opponent could easily use a building to deny a charge from them by careful unit facing.  As for forests, if they aint steadfast that's a plus as well.  I could come up with at least a dozen, non named-character, single models who have the potential to hold up 40 spiders for a few turns.

I'm not saying the list doesn't look fun, I'm just saying this is more challenging for Chexmix than most his opponents.

Don't get me wrong.  The theme is wonderful.  All I was suggesting was to break down the horde of cav.  Being able to move over buildings and through forests still isn't easy for 40 cav models to do.  You still have to be an 1" away from the building after your move.  Those extra ranks add extra inches to that equation.

That's interesting, but understandable I suppose. Did Teclis ruin it for everybody?

Teclis was and forever will be a pussy!  I have never feared him.  He only did one thing and that was cast lots of spells.

What magic support are you referring to for your spider riders?  Are you fielding them 5 wide or 10 wide?  Best of luck with units of 40 cav!  I think it's going to fail more than it will work.

Murphy, I will be at game night this Sunday.  If you want to look through the Storm of Magic book, I'll have it with me.

Units of 40 spider riders?  I would suggest bringing them down to units of 15, at max).  Yes, you will be steadfast and yes you will have things to counter charge units who hit your flanks but you still have goblin statlines and goblin leadership isn't that fancy.

I will not be present tomorrow.

I would suggest doom divers over chukkas, if you are able to get them.  2 Doom Divers would do wonders to put holes in knights and other units with high armour saves.

I will not be present for this weeks Planetary Empires.

I am going to make it next week with my Brawl list.  I will be challenging anyone to a 2400 point game next week.  Maybe 2, depending on how long it takes for the first one to complete.

Honestly, with 2 chimera's and 2 units of skullcrushers, you really don't need the DP or level 4 tzeentch caster on a disc.  I play Dark Elves as well and have used many different things in the book.  Unfortunately, I just don't like how my blocks of infantry hold up.  I do however, understand that a mobile army is very hard to counter.  I don't use a level 4 though and I have ZERO bolt throwers in my army.  I actually rely on late turn combats to decide the ultimate outcome of most games.  I will say that there are many armies out there who do counter that specific Dark Elf list you mentioned:

1) Dwarfs

2) Lizardmen

3) Empire

4) Wood Elfs

You struggle simple because you lack shooting.  You have no way to deal with the mobile threats or the scouts because you have nothing to turn and shoot at them.  Lizardmen and Wood Elf armies could do the same with all the fast mobile shooting they have access to.  Certain Dwarf and Empire armies could have the same results on your list and they don't have the movement.  The right war machines used at the right times could easily pop the chimeras and/or skull crushers.  The mobile Dark Elf list is very brutal.  In fact, they can get worse with the following:

1) Dreadlord on dark steed

2) Level 4 on dark steed

3) BSB on Cold One

4) 2-3 Masters on Dark Steeds w/great weapons

I know it sucks to play that list with an army who just doesn't have the neccesary tools to deal with it.  However, in his defense I will add that you do have tools to deal with it, you just don't take them.  You have Hellcannons, and access to level 2 wizards with great spell choices.  You do have the double Chimera's, and those can threaten anything he has in his list.  Being that shades don't have poison attacks means they won't get many wounds through on the chimera.  I will also add that you can deal with that Dark Elf army with your own by controlling your deployment zone.  You can easily set up your army so his shades can't deply behind you or on your flanks.  You can also move your units is such a way that his fast cav have extremely limited movement selections.

Playing agianst the mobile Dark Elf list is an advanced learning curve, IMO, and that list is nothing what the old DE list had to offer.  Just be thankful that you don't have to face the unkillable Dreadlord any longer.

That's an extremely nice looking unit and the banner is well done.  Great job!

Nice changes, and it's great that you were able to receive any kind of advice on this thread.

Here's the answer for your charmed shield question.  Yes, you discard a hit on a 2+, so the die roll is made after the hits rolls but prior to rolling to wound.

Swan, that is EPIC!  Nicely done sir.

I could bring my SoM book with me on a game night for you to look at.  My opinion is that the Chimera from the SoM book isn't worth the points.  In fact, I believe most of the choices are "meh".  There are some cool ones, and I believe at 3k and with using special points instead of rare allows you to bring one of the greater daemons from the book.

Also, with the pact scrolls, you could actually bring units from a few different army books.  I believe they are daeoms, tomb kings, and vampire counts.

So, I've been strongly lacking my updates for my Dark Elves.  Here's what has taken place:

1) Dragon is finished (really love it).  The scales were a pain, I had to paint them individually to get the right outcome.

2) Manticore is finished (love it).  This was a fun model to paint.

3) Character on Dark Pegasus is finished (however, I will be re-doing the character conversion at some point)

4) Supreme Sorceress on Dark Pegasus is finished (meh, it's decent)

3) 24 Black Guard are finished (I am really happy with the outcome of the models)

4) 2 Cold one Chariots are finished (I tried a new technique for a metallic purple).  I was going to use the lilac glaze but it didn't look right and now I'm thinking this should have been my choice.

5) I have a wash dryin on my Maruaders (just the riders).  I am trying an extremely new method to me

I will be taking some picture tomorrow night and post them on here.

No worries fixxer, I just didn't want to come across wrong.  I am still having a hard time adjusting to the Ordo way of fantasy.  I was raised in a super competivie community and that's all I new for 7 years.  I love what Ordo represents; however, it's hard to brush off over 7 years of playstyle.  When I build a list, I have a very hard time not assuming that opponents will take X-Y-Z  and instead go with F-G-H (these being the non optimal choices).

I think the model looks fine.  GW just missed all directions with the paint and made it look animeaish.

Orcs have access to some of the best units in warhammer:

1) Savage Orcs (insane number of attacks and come with a ward save)

2) Trolls (a horde of these things smash just about whatever they come in contact with and they put so much fear into any unit with a good armour save)

3) Squigs (extremely underated for what they produce)

4) Doom Divers (these things wreck armoured units soooo good)

However, the above options need to be used in moderation when playing your average opponent.

Not saying that I dont play competitively when I play, I just like to include my own personality in  my army choices and try not to pretend that its cool to play lists that are optimized for power. I dont feel like its fun for any of my opponents, just like I dont think its fun when people purposely build an army that isnt competitive or is lacking on purpose. Its all about balance and having tactical flexibility so that all of your games arent RPS or decided during deployment or a 6 diced spell that annihilates 1200 points off the table because its all stacked in a Deathstar. This style of game annoys me to no end and I see it A LOT.

 

Just gotta voice those old school methods every once in a while. 

I hear and understand what you are saying; however, the fact is the meta has drastically changed for 8th.  The current meta for 8th isn't the same as when this edition first came out.  With the introduction of all the MC/MI/Monsters out there in nearly every book now, the options for many armies have changed in order to just deal with those threats.  A unit of 20 or less infantry, more often than not, struggle against 8-12 MI.  Most infantry just don't produce the same results as MI/MC/Monsters.  This is why you need to ensure you have tools to counter this when you do make an all-comers list.

14 BG won't do much against a unit of 12 Ironguts (common site in Ogres), heck even my 24 BG struggled to do anything significant against raindogs 8 treekin.  How do you counter that?  You do so with knights.  Why knights?  You now take away stomps and thunderstomps, have a much better armour save, and can put out more hurt on the charge.  Most elf units, from any of the 3 books, aren't meant for the long combat grinds.  Again, in the current meta, if you have units of 20 or less, you really need to think about the staying power they have and what units you can use to increase their surivability.

Sometimes you take a charge with a small unit of fragile stubborn troops to set up countercharges with heavy cav/ hydra/ manticore in any order or combination.

 

... NtK is not a new player, but has been away for a while...

 

... Go with MNs advice.

I understand that he's not a new player.  I also understand what you are saying about his list.  However, he did ask about advice on his list to be able to deal with different threats.  I do have experience playing both BG and CoK's.  The problem with 14 is that they just wont get you the outcome you are trying to achieve and without the knights, he has no answer for units with good armour saves.  1+/2+/3+ armour save units are pretty common with a lot of lists.  Not only that but the S4 halberds wont have a huge impact against T5/T6 monters, which again aren't uncommon any more with the current meta of 8th.

All I was/am trying to do is give him some advice with an army which is mostly S3 with some options for S4 or higher units.  Again, 14 BG at 2400 points isn't going to do much for his army.  My suggestions were only trying to enhance his army to what his original post asked for.

Even when I take a unit of 24 BG, I get into a lot of situations where I am slowly loosing the grind battle and my heavy hitters are tied up with other threats my opponent has.  The dual Hydra I was suggesting isn't the same as before.  They still do great things, but without the ward save your opponent has a higher chance of knocking it out early on.  As for the other suggestions I made, it's more for survivability than anything else.  They still have elf stat lines and take damage when engaged.  Again, my suggestions were only meant to help enhance his army and the units he is currently fielding, they have nothing to do with "maximizing".

Here's how I feel about Black Guard and Cold One Knights:

It's either one or the other.  They are both expensive units and to get the most out of them in higher point games you need to maximize their efficeincy.  5 CoK's will most likely get shot off the table or shot down to a size that just doesn't concern your opponent.    The same could be said about 14 BG.  They still only rock a 5+ save and will most likely be the target of shooting or magic for a turn to bring them to a level your opponent doesn't care about.

I love BG and have 24 of them painted up; however, they just don't provide what the CoK's do.  You get 2+ saves, S6 on the charge, ASF and MP means you will hit and wound with nearly all of the attacks.  If you dropped the BG (I know the dilema) you could get the 10 CoK's, possibly a chariot (CoC are extremely good) to support your knights on a charge, and get some extra points to keep your characters and maybe add 2 RBT's and bring that unit of Dark Riders to 10.

Or, you could drop the knights, add a second hydra to support a block of 24 BG.  The BG will need support during combat.  They can stay in the grind with a re-rollable 10 Stubborn test but will need something to add extra combat damage.