IW Raptors

Aside from anything else, personally I find it difficult at times to tell what weapons unpainted modals are carrying in squads, when presented by a load of grey/primed only modals, picking out the plasma gunner from the guys with bolters suddenly becomes a bit more of a task. Unpainted and not wysiwyg is a headache to play against.

I guess the obvious anwser would be SM CAD with a HQ that combos well with them (Vulcan, Tiggy, Lias Issodon), 3 from the elite section and some cheap, mobile scoring via scouts etc. Then a detachment of LOTD from their own book. Throw in a INQ detachment for some servo skulls or I imagine, a skyhammer and their pinning ability, combined with that Relic the LOTD can take, that gives a squad FNP and kills an enemy modal + increases their FNP for every failed LD test within 12 or something of them. Although I guess a canny opponent would just elect to go to ground most of the time and accept the pin so maybe not.

You'd have to be some straight arse to have a problem with someone using their space marine jet bikers as bikes in 40k. Fortunately I don't think I've met that type of person in miniature gaming yet.

I remember back in 3rd ed the designers seemed to be more vocal and released FAQs iirc. Different time though, I remember them releasing 3.5 ed experimental rules via chapter approved (I think). Was still balance problems back then of course and shoddy rules. I don't buy white dwarf ever now, but do the designers ever even comment on the game in a general sense?

Why one of the rules design team members does not work on a FAQ during his toilet breaks I don't know. I'd be a lazy feck, just go to the ITC FAQ or something, run with their rulings and release it..as paid content, hardback book. Complete with pretty drawings. $$$

I'm going to try out the new formation soon. Using it as an opportunity to whip out a few modals I seldomly use much these days (Fire Warriors & Hammerheads). My group is running the combined fire rule as following for now: Combined Firepower units are treated as one big unit when shooting at the one nominated target and get +1BS, use of markerlights and any buffs shooting at the primary target and and Target Lock units shoot normally as per their individual unit (i.e. not big Combined Firepower unit) if shooting at another target. However as Gargantuan Creatures shot one weapon at the primary target, as individual models, they retain all the buffs and bonuses from the big Combined Firepower unit for anything else they shoot at subsequently in that phase. So them's the rules i'll be playing by until/if something changes. Buffmander joins the 3 man FE crisis team to dish them some buffs and help out the Hammerheads using the Co-ordinated firepower rules. Fireblade & Pathfinders Co-ordinated firepower with the strike teams.Unless i'm mistaken, the Fireblade Volley Fire rule should confer to everyone. Only took the pathfinders as a tax really, don't expect them to live, but if they do, they confer an extra 6 inches range to the strike teams via the Co-ordinated firepower rule & Pulse Accelerator Drone (unless i'm wrong on that one). FE commander joins the marker drones and the rest is fairly self explanatory. Not like my usual Tau list at all, which looks to minimize soft targets, but as I said, it's not built to be hyper competitive, I want to try out some units and see how they fare in it. Tau Empire Hunter Cadre Commander W/ Command & Control Node, Multi Spectrum Sensor Suite, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Crisis Iridium Battlesuit, Stimulant Injector =170pts Cadre Fireblade =60pts 1 Crisis Suit W/2x Fusion Blasters =52pts 5 Fire Warriors Strikers =45pts 5 Fire Warriors Strikers =45pts 5 Fire Warriors Strikers =45pts 5 Fire Warriors Strikers =45pts 5 Fire Warriors Strikers =45pts 5 Fire Warriors Strikers =45pts 4 Pathfinders W/1 Pulse Accelerator Drone =59pts Hammerhead Gunship W/Ion Cannon & TL Smart Missile System =125pts Hammerhead Gunship W/Ion Cannon & TL Smart Missile System =125pts Hammerhead Gunship W/Ion Cannon & TL Smart Missile System =125pts Drone Network (Auxiliary) 4 Marker Drones =56pts Farsight Enclaves CAD HQ's: Commander W/2x Missile Pods, Target Lock & Drone Controller =128pts Ethereal =50pts Troops: 3 Crisis Suits W/6x Missile Pods, 3x Target Locks Drones & 3x Bonding Knifes =174pts 1 Crisis Suit W/2x Fusion Blasters & 1x Bonding Knife = 53pts 1 Crisis Suit W/2x Fusion Blasters & 1x Bonding Knife = 53pts

Haha depends on which ruling your group settles on for the Hunter Formation I spose. Mine seems to be leaning towards conferring buffs if targeting the same unit, so buffmanders etc get to share the love, but modals using target locks to fire at a separate unit don't retain the buffs.. Seems to be the way the tide is going from reading around. Still very, very powerful with the right builds. Opens up a few lacklustre options as well, which is nice. If you decide to go non uber blue fish with the formation, Stealth suits, Firewarriors, Hammerheads and Sniper teams seem at least workable with buffs from a buffmander/Fireblade/Darkstrider etc in the formation.

The skyray is pretty tricky to fit in now if you're going down the formations route. A pity, as it's pretty beast. Having to take 3 troop choices that aren't obsec is a bit of a pain as well. At least fire warriors in a cad can mount in a devilfish for some okay scoring. Although if the fireblade can dish out his benefits to the 3 striker feams, that would be pretty good.

Interesting that crisis suit units can have up to nine suits now in a unit. I suppose with the addition of a buffmander, target locks and a heap of gun drones/marker drones, you could make a mini tau deathstar. The footprint would be massive though and tau tend towards msu as even with a tanky buffmander and a shed load of drones, tau don't get any crazy durability.

Vulkan or Lias issodon bring some shenanigans to the table that benefit Lotd. Although I guess when SM players want a brute force melta drop, skyhammer is the preferred route over Lotd as you get nifty formation bonuses for free and essentially preferred enemy due to ultra marine chapter tactics. Unless you really don't like assault marines and consider them a tax. I'm not a fan of ass marines myself. Interestingly a skyhammer with two full Dev squads with multi meltas and combi grav, and two min assault marine squads with melta bombs or flamers works out just a bit more expensive points wise then an allied detachment of 4 squads of Lotd with multi melta, meltagun and combi grav. Hard to argue against the skyhammer, but the Lotd detachment for a similar cost does not compare terribly imo. Ignore cover and two extra combi gravs vs preferred enemy firepower wise. Skyhammer is guaranteed to come down when you want, Lotd have a invulnerable save, fearless and easier to spread out on the drop.

I imagine they would be alright allies for guard, reliable deep strike and ignore cover melta. Although I guess guard with an sm contingent can do much the same via guard command squads in buddy drop pods and get the benefit of attaching an sm hq to a blob. Lotd can get a relentless combi grav instead of combi melta to go alongside all the melta, which is nice I suppose. Coming from a player new to sm, I like the look of them on paper at least if going with a cad. With some reserve manipulation. Too fond of ignore cover as a tau player!

Thanks for the clarification lads. Whilst I'm on the topic of Lotd, how come I rarely see them on the tabletop? They seem pretty good to me on paper at least.

Pretty minor, but I just noticed in the latest sm codex, Lotd can re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2d6. So if your taking them as a detachment from their own Dex as allies..they are "worse" and can only re-roll the scatter dice? Or would you just play them as per the updated marine codex?

Aye I've heard good things about them! I'm quite fond of skyrays myself for the old markerlights support but tetras do bring their own benefits to the table.

Yeah I'd say so, the markerlights in the formation might be nice, but in all honesty I don't find myself lacking in that department currently. I was hoping for formation benefits like scout/make the devilfish a fast vehicle if they aren't going to reduce its cost. More effective markerlights, well if you really want cost effective markerlights, FE mandatory 3 man crisis suit unit with missile pods, target lock and two marker drones each, FE commander with same and velocity tracker. Then ally in a buffmander with marker drones and drone controller. Pricey and a large footstep, but buffmander can be made tanky and drones are fairly expendable. Better then pathfinders, even with formation bonuses! (Imo)

I wonder what will be in the hunter formation. I hate to say it, but in the current codex, commander with marker drones or skyrays are the only real marker light sources I use, because despite loving the pathfinder models, they die real fast! Stealth suits needed a bit more then precision shots, assuming they are part of the stealth formation.

On 2nd reading, the shadow strike kill team formation sounds pretty nifty If I understand it correctly. Scouts are good, vanguard that can assault the turn they arrive would make them pretty scary considering they can take assault goodies without paying through the nose. Edit: never mind, I guess they are actually kill team rules. Boo urns.

Sad face, the d fish if changed would have really helped fire warriors out as well. Just under two melta bombs pts cost and whilst they have some synergy with other units, I quickly adapted to using either kroot or the FE supplement. Not that fire warriors are terrible, just they sort of need a transport and act mainly as obsec. Kroot do that better and crisis suits in fe can do it, plus they pack a punch. Maybe a formation will boost those units. Hopefully stealth suits, Vespid and hammerheads get adequate price reductions as well. My current tau force is basically built around an FE cad with lots of crisis suits and 3 skyrays, and an allied empire detachment for the buffmander. If the buffmander was nerfed and marker lights, I'll be a very unhappy bunny unless they get some significant buffs elsewhere. Marker lights, sky fire, interceptors and buffmander are pretty much the glue that gives you a real punch, otherwise tau aren't all that great at shooting for their pts imo.

Aye was thinking the same, spruced up tacs with a few extra bits and paint job. The actual Lotd modals are pretty rich for just marines with skulls!

Thanks, I guess you can never go too far wrong with grav cents! Pity about the modals.. As an aside, what do people think about Lias and using legion of the damned as allies? His abilities on paper really help them, but in general, I don't hear much about Lotd and never face them myself. They seem solid for a unit I never see..

Pretty straightforward question, Lias issodon allows you to infiltrate 3 squads and himself. Pretty nifty. From the space marine cad, which units really like infiltrate that don't have it? My 1st thought, is that large squads with allot of models get the most from it in terms of sheer force projection through numbers and the most amount of modals picking up infiltrate. So full tactical marines or Dev squads for example. Obviously the Devs can pick the shorter range weapon choices such as multi melta or grav due to infiltrate and pump out more bang for your buck. Tactical marines outside of the battle company seem to get dissed allot, but three full tac squads with obsec, a grav cannon, plasma gun and infiltrate don't seem terrible to me on paper, considering raptor bolter fodder also get rendering guns if they stay still, so at least if your shooting a tough target with the heavy and special, they won't go to waste. I guess alternatively, bikes or centurions with grav and infiltrate are just that much better, although I'm not sure raptor tactics really suit them. Any thoughts on running Lias would be greatly appreciated.