SPaceORK

1 minute ago, paxmiles said:

Sure, but there really aren't that many total 40k players. A bigger group than when I started, but we're still very much a minority of the population. And despite 33pts per team, GW wants $39.50 for a squad (3 mortars), so it's not a financially cheap addition to any guard army (which is already one of the most expensive armies to play). Even some of our richer players will probably reconsider buying 8 of these kits just to fill a 220pt section of their army. $316 makes them about twice the cost of an imperial knight. And that's the current GW ones, not scouring Ebay for OOP metal IG mortar teams.

Well when has price ever affected "that guy"? Saying price is prohibitive to tournament cheesyness probably incorrect. And also, don't mortars use a completely different model on the sprue? So if you have a bunch of heavy weapons teams, you just need bases to make the mortars.

Pretty sure there was a list that top 5ed the BAO with three units of alpha legion tzeetch oblits (deepstrike middle of table, -2 to hit at 12+" due to trait and changing) and two units of slaneesh to get that sweet double tap.

4 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

So, for questions of local meta, has anyone actually seen such a Guard detachment be fielded? 24 Mortar teams...

In Portland... No. But I've seen it in Southern Oregon and would imagine a town 10x as big would definitely have it.

4 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Then we agree. I don't think any of the components are overpowered or broken. If a good list is strong, that hardly seems like an issue of balance. Just means I need to up my game and think up a stronger list. 

As for fixes, I wouldn't be surprised if Orders are modified to require line of sight to their target for the ordering model and the target they are shooting/charging. Sounds like a GW change. Would nerf Mortars when shooting at targets that couldn't be seen. Does seem unfluffy that the officiers can boost them on orders to attack things they can't see. 

Mortars are just to cheap... That many shots for such a cheap price is a little ridiculous. 

220 points if mortars can pump out enough wounds to kill a 5 man squad of marines a turn or put a few wounds on a knight. While this doesn't seem like a big deal, it can constantly and consistently put wounds on things. They will easily get back double their points while the other 1780 points does their thing.

Mortars are not a huge deal but they are slightly undercosted to the point another points increase is needed.

5 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Missed them. What makes them broken?

11 points a piece post FAQ, squads of three, no los needed, d6 "bolter" shots.

So in a heavy detachment you can pump out 24d6 "bolter" shots for 250ish points with no los needed at 48".

Currently the only broken thing in the IG codex that hasn't been FAQed is mortar teams.

10 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said:

I wasn't saying I dislike it. It's out of place for something for me to say. When I use that term it has a specified purpose. By placing that colloquial saying into one of my statements it changes it's tone. And since I did not want to convey that particular tone to the statement it wasn't something that I would add. By adding the term you are, in essence, putting words into my mouth.

I had a wonderful rebuttal to your comment but I realized you love this stuff so... feth off?

I'll ignore your comments and you can ignore mine. 

Now lets both stop hijacking this thread.

6 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said:

you added the blah blah blah. Pretty sure I didn't put that in there. I would appreciate it when you quote me in the future to not change what I type.

Please.

I'll do what I want.

I didn't violate any rules so...sorry you dislike it?

But now that we dislike each other, I'll refrain from paying attention to anything you say. 

2 hours ago, peter.cosgrove said:

I can't tell you how irritating .... Blah blah blah...

Dude, why do you always have to throw up a wall of text when like one or two sentences or a small paragraph will work?

Especially when most of this stuff your writing has nothing to do with the op's question.

So... Three knights are bad. Unless your completely unprepared for them.

When your writing a list, regardless of the meta, you have to be able to kill a solid 10-30 t3/5+ guys or put 10-15+ wounds on a t8/3+ model.

If your list can do that, then it doesn't matter what they bring, you'll be able to put up a fight.

On 10/28/2017 at 8:21 PM, paxmiles said:

Sounds like your army is too OP for the local scene....Hopefully you get challenged at some point.

I ain't afraid of his knights! 

But yea the meta is casual, however this is a tournament league so...

Well IK won his game and I also had a game on the other side of the valley.

Him, Blood Angels with Dante, double stormraven, death company, some troops.

Me, 5 demon princes, zombies and cultists and McPillowfist again. Now I know I said I hated him last week but I figured I would give him one more shot.

Me, turn one. Move everything forward, warptime the kyhtan, charge his Baal pred and troops. Well I hit a bunch, but failed to wound... Good job kyhtan. Smite a stormraven off the table.

His turn one, he disengages the kyhtan, shoots him and kills him. Kills a bunch of zombies after deepstrikes and good charges. 

My turn two, smite and shuffle zombies forward. Respawn cultists.

His turn two, kills cultist and zombies. That's about it.

My turn three, smite and charge his army, remove it from play, he concedes.

Zombies win!

1 hour ago, peter.cosgrove said:

Nobody else said this. 

YOU said this. You took a constructive comment and turned it into something else.

I never said anything about charging people by the hour or by the day for table space.

 

Well I thought we were done with this...

Tbo, I only skimmed through your post, because they are ridiculously and unnecessarily long. So if the rent you are referring to is something else besides an actual additional fee to use the tables, then who cares?

As long as the customer is not being charged, in anyway, to use the tables then a store can do whatever to bring in extra income.

39 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Huh. Hadn't considered that application of non-infantry units. Still, Kytan has like 15 (Slash) attacks, hitting on 3+, and at S10, are you really having trouble?

PS: as an aside, thanks to the price drop in the CSM codex for the Lord of Skulls, the Kytan is certainly less viable than it was. Kytan's are 514pts and a minimum Lord of Skulls is 521pts. So as a cheap Lord of Skulls, the Kytan isn't. 

15 attacks at s10, hitting on 3+ but only D3 wounds on 3-4 wound models that kept coming back. Neither one was that great, imo. Would rather have another demon prince and 40+ cultists for the points.

1 hour ago, VonVilkee said:

Yep counts as destroyed...

Doesnt it say an enemy has to destroy the warlord?

But seriously, if I for some reason played terminators and you told me this, I would have just stared at you in utter disbelief and shock.

I would have had no idea how to respond to that during a real game.

1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

Pretty much. Says I can deploy the in "a" teleportarium chamber. Says you do the same. If I deploy second , I should be able to select the same teleportarium chamber you deployed to. Doesn't suggest these models are considered out of play - quite the opposite, it definitely suggests that the models are deployed and otherwise in game. I should be able to shoot them too.

Huh... That is a unique interpretation. Heck if we played, I'd let you do it.

However, while we are in the same teleportarium, it's 72" across. So I'm outa charge range. And out of shooting range too. 

I suppose you could be in extra secret reserves and deepstrike next to me in the teleportarium.

It's like Terminator meets Inception!

Lol wat?

I would love to hear what kind of argument you have for your dudes in reserve assaulting their dudes in reserve.

Apparently I took pictures of deployment, then forgot to take more?

Sorry for my hideous army, I just got chaos a couple months ago... And Nagash is a Nurgle demon prince that I'm converting.

https://i.imgur.com/0AEzNrQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gU7fOzD.jpg

15 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Glad to see I'm not the only one whose Kytan has trouble with Scarabs ;)

Also, it's kind of odd that it can shoot over Infantry just fine, but not over Swarms. Actually, there are a bunch of things that are Infantry-only that seem like they should also apply to Swarms.

Oops... Good thing those immortals I shot got back up. o.0

28 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

Okay more fanboy...

 

I want a strategem "The big red button" makes something go really fast like a vehicle gets to advance and charge with extra movement and gives extra attacks... I don't want extra round of combat for boyz they are good enough but I want some extra hurt with the vehicles!

The extra movement for vehicles seems like a legit clan specific stratgem.

I would guess your going to get things similar to what we already see in the other codexs. 

Probably a double attack in fight phase or +1 attack on the charge.

A -1 to hit at 12"+

Someone will get a 6+ fnp

Also a +1 to advance and move with vehicles.

Dawn of war, league layered missions (primary; tactical objectives, secondary; objectives, tertiary; first blood, linebreaker, stwl).

My opponent deployed in a gunline; warriors to the my far left, vehicles center, scarabs and a spider to the right. Monolith and immortals in reserve.

I deployed all demon princes and kyhtan center. Cultist and and unit of poxwalkers bubble wrapped them. Unit of poxwalkers bubble wrap behind to prevent deepstrike shenanigans. Other units if poxwalkers to flanks, holding objectives.

My opponent got first turn, put a bunch of shots into the kyhtan, did a few wounds. Took some pot shots at my zombies, advanced a bit with some scarabs, made more scarabs. Generally not alot going on.

My first turn I use "turn dead cultists into zombies" and "you can only target these poxwalkers like a character" stratgems, run the center cultist and poxwalkers up 11" and 5", walk the dp's up behind them, use the other pox walkers to deny as much space as possible to deepstrikes. Move the kyhtan 12" towards his command and annihilation barges in the center. Cast smite a bunch, don't do much. Cast warptime on the kyhtan move 12" again. Charge kyhtan at his barges, kill a command barge, wound the other. In hindsight, charging near the scarabs was a mistake...

Turn two for my opponent! Deepstrikes his monolith to my right, pukes out some immortals and a crypteks I think. Disengages from my kyhtan with his barge, makes some more scarabs. During shooting, unloads everything into my kyhtan, brings it down to 13 wounds. Then, during the assault phase, he charges me with all his scarabs, which then ties up my khorne titan for the next  3 turns of combat cause the kyhtan is a huge pile of failure.

Anyways...

My turn two. Use the same two stratgems as turn one. Cultists, poxwalkers and demon princes in center advance. Poxwalkers move to block monolith from my princes. Other zombies sit around being fearless objective campers. Smite for like 8 wounds on the monolith. No charges, kyhtan kills about 3 bases of scarabs with all his attacks... Leaving a whole bunch, he is still surrounded by tiny metal bugs.

His turn three, decides it's time to deal with the cultists two inches from his retreating gunline, kills 10 or so which adds 10 zombies to the squad behinds them. Monolith does nothing of note, rest of his army does nothing. Oh, except for the scarabs. Who at this point I'm pretty sure are more khorne than the close-combat khorne titan! Yea they take McPillowfist down to 7 wounds...

My turn three... Well at this point my demon princes are close enough to all get charges. 5 smites, 35 7/-2/2 attacks hitting on 2's, rerolling 1's proceeded to eat most of his army and at this point he concedes

10-2 my favor.

So I learned kyhtan Ravanger are... Meh. Yes I made an error but I wasn't that impressed. Second, turning cultists into zombies is amazing and also being able to respawn cultist also seems amazing.

3 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Did you play round 1 yet?

Yes I did! 

Umm spontaneous battlereport I guess...

My opponents list (from memory so sketchy at best)

Necrons

20x Warriors

20x Warriors

Trairch Stalker

2x tomb spider

2x 5x scarabs

Annihilation barge

Command barge

10x immortals

Monolith

Some crypteks and foot Lords

Have no idea if that's all correct or what detachments he had.

Me, Mixed Chaos

Death Guard Battalion? Detachment

DG demon prince w/talons

DG demon prince w/talons

3 units of 20x poxwalkers

10x poxwalkers

30 cultist w/ pistol, ccw

Alpha Legion Supreme Command

Slaanesh demon prince w/talons

Nurgle demon prince w/talons

Tzeentch demon prince w/talons

Kyhtan Ravanger

Powers; smite, warptime, prescience, couple others...

3 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

We'll see how it goes, won't we?

I will drown your knights in zombies and cultists! Your guns and legs don't work if they are filled with gooey bits from a hundred poor souls.