The use of FW Dreads and Tactics aka I need help on what to buy

[Prophecy]

When I started playing this edition it just so happened that normal codex dreads were appearing on the battlefield. I personally feel that they aren't all that great but I still enjoy seeing them. I have been going over some of the different books and such and settled on IG for quite some time. At this point I am a little of the sturdy Flak armor and wanted to try out creating a DW army. To me the best part of DW is the standard infantry that is provided but I believe dreads actually can do quite well with them. Upon reading the FW rules for all of their dreads I actually noticed how much punch they pack for their point cost. 

I am trying to determine which ones to buy that would best compliment DW with the tactic of the teleportarium aka infiltrate. I have a few choices but I wanted to see what you all thought and perhaps how to equip them.

Chaplain Dread: This guy looks amazing as a model and seems to have some beardy rules as a character. I wanted to put him near a unit of storm bolter veterans and use him as CC support and a fire magnet. I was thinking of giving the nasty dread inferno flamer and standard Dread CC weapon but I wasn't super sure if the flamer was tactically sound.

Dodero Dread: Although they look a little wonky, I like the 5+ invul they can offer. I wanted to put them near a squad of backfield primaris but I have no idea what load out to give. I like the look of the autocannon looking guns but perhaps heavier weapons would be better?

Leviathan Dread: Also wanted to teleport him with a CC weapon and something else. I am unsure of what heavy weapon to go with. 

Relic Contemptor: I have seen more than a few people run double assault cannons but I actually am not sure of what this guys role should be or where to go on weapons. 

Those are my choices so far. If you have any ideas I would love to hear them!

[Guest]

For starters, check the FW FAQs. Not sure on the loyalist ones, but the CSM dreads/Hellbrutes have quite a few corrections which alter their uses. In particular, transport options aren't the same for the different "sizes" of dreadnought/hellbrute.

Beyond that, Point cost is a major concern, as the FW models are often more expensive than they should be. 

Regarding your inferno cannon chappy dread, flamer weapons are tactically sound against some opponents, while their terrible range and high point cost cripples them against other opponents. Just depends who you end up against. I will note that if the Chappy dread is a CHARACTER and has less than 10 wounds, then he'll have trouble filling the role of a fire magnet, since the CHARACTER rule will prevent the opponent from targetting the chappy dread. 

Dodero Dread: Never tried them. I've debated them a few times, but I can't justify their point cost. They're like 200+ pts with rather mundane loadouts. They really aren't anymore durable than a predator. Plus, their AA role has been dimished now that AA just means -1 to hit for most units. Regarding granting them a squad backfield, then you have to pay for that unit and any supporting characters - they don't bring the firepower to be the deathstar that their points suggest they are. Maybe you can get it to work, but I couldn't figure it out.

Levi dread is amazing, but has a crippling point cost. He's as much as a low end Imperial Knight. As such, he's often compared to an imperial knight and found lacking. You could probably get the synergy working to justify him via other supporting units and chapter traits, but you'll often be better off with an actual lord of war. I think his value is found in whether or not he works well with the rest of your army. 

Relic Contemptor: I think the contemptor is overpriced, just for his base shell, but that's just me. I have found that the base BS 2+ is amazing against Eldar and similar hit roll reducing opponents. That said, most of the time, a regular dread will be better than a contemptor, just in those few instances where having invulnerable, slightly more wounds,  slightly better bs will make the difference. I'm not sure if his degrading profile makes him better than a stock dread.  

PS: these are more general answers. I have the CSM FW rules, not the loyalist ones. I'm commenting based on the loyalist ones as opponents and the assumption that the CSM ones are pretty similar to the loyalist ones. Somewhat related help is better than no help, though I hope others with more experience with the loyalist dreads comment to get the answers you seek. 

[VonVilkee]

On the contemptor, the extra movement is a huge benefit and the weapon opportunities on the relic version are super nice. 

[Talonwinter]

Levi dread is amazing. I face these alot localy. The Gun options are really good and threaten a knight with 16 str 8 shots.

They cost a little less than a knight and the have opption. screen them and the are a true pain in the tail.

Was a guy running 6 of them  entail the faq. Now he still runs 3 and the are a solid fire base. 

 

If i play dreds these are what i would run no doubt.

[Prophecy]

Thank you for the answers. I'm just trying not to use a knight because lets face it they are everywhere. I want to have some options you might see vs. always see. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Prophecy said:

Thank you for the answers. I'm just trying not to use a knight because lets face it they are everywhere. I want to have some options you might see vs. always see. 

If it's just about sight, I suggest heavy conversions. Knights are everywhere just because knights really are a steal for their point cost. They are pretty solid for their cost, don't really require support to be effective, and have some of the more impressive weapon options. And GW is really keen on giving them near-constant support (They're on their second codex of this edition).

[spagunk]

If you only have one FW item, go with the Leviathan dread. The most popular loadout is dual storm cannons from my small internet circle. You're not going to get a lot of long range on the thing so the volume of shots make it a good loadout to default to. Mortis Contemptors if you aren't situated to get the Leviathan; with dual assault cannon thingies. CCW isn't a bad choice but it's more expensive in 40k than just doubling down on ranged shooting. Plus who doesn't like dakka?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, spagunk said:

If you only have one FW item, go with the Leviathan dread. The most popular loadout is dual storm cannons from my small internet circle. You're not going to get a lot of long range on the thing so the volume of shots make it a good loadout to default to. Mortis Contemptors if you aren't situated to get the Leviathan; with dual assault cannon thingies. CCW isn't a bad choice but it's more expensive in 40k than just doubling down on ranged shooting. Plus who doesn't like dakka?

Lately, I've been shying away from Dual ranged weapon dreads. They look good on paper, but then the opponent locks them in melee and they become worthless. Sure, they got good stats, but they can't really get out of melee and still be useful. Levi dread especially, since that's 300+ points that I can tie up for several turns with 5-bolter marines. Imperial knights at least have their stomps, but the dreads are just stuck.

Could also just take a counter-charge unit. But when you add up the cost of the counter-charge unit, the melee arms start looking affordable.

[SPaceORK]

43 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Lately, I've been shying away from Dual ranged weapon dreads. They look good on paper, but then the opponent locks them in melee and they become worthless. Sure, they got good stats, but they can't really get out of melee and still be useful. Levi dread especially, since that's 300+ points that I can tie up for several turns with 5-bolter marines. Imperial knights at least have their stomps, but the dreads are just stuck.

Could also just take a counter-charge unit. But when you add up the cost of the counter-charge unit, the melee arms start looking affordable.

Or screen for them?

But yea leviathan dred. Cannons for non infantry and elites, grav for horde and Titan models.

[Prophecy]

I will go with the Levi dread then. I need anti tank so cannons sound good. I appreciate all the help.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Or screen for them?

Sure, but in terms of points, I'm usually better off just paying for the melee weapon arm, than buying the bodies to screen him. 

[SPaceORK]

5 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Sure, but in terms of points, I'm usually better off just paying for the melee weapon arm, than buying the bodies to screen him. 

Most of the time 5-10 man objective grabbing troop screens are better that 1 attack.

But your results may be different.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

Most of the time 5-10 man objective grabbing troop screens are better that 1 attack.

But your results may be different.

The Levi only has 1 attack!?!? I wasn't suggesting buying paired melee, just swapping one of the two ranged weapons for a melee weapon. 

You spend about 75pts minimum for 5-man marines with decent weapons, usually more. Going to cost about that for any of the dread melee weapons, and they usually have good built-in ranged weapons (which add cost, but can reduce the loss of the shooting arm). With 4 base attacks on a stock dreadnought, the fist is awesome. Levi has spendier fist options, should still not really cost any more than 5-10 marines.  

Though I am definitely seeing this from the CSM perspective, where we don't have combat squads which result in underequipped squads of bolters marines with nothing to do.... 

[VonVilkee]

Levi starts at 4 attacks but loses an attack for each ccw swapped out. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, VonVilkee said:

Levi starts at 4 attacks but loses an attack for each ccw swapped out. 

So with 1 melee and 1 range, only 3 attacks? That sucks. I'll have to check my FW CSM book, I don't recall them being that bad. 

[SPaceORK]

On 9/20/2018 at 5:52 PM, paxmiles said:

So with 1 melee and 1 range, only 3 attacks? That sucks. I'll have to check my FW CSM book, I don't recall them being that bad. 

The are a gun platform... They have terrific gun options.

[Prophecy]

8 hours ago, SPaceORK said:

The are a gun platform... They have terrific gun options.

Yeah for death watch that's what I need. I'm also fond of the new assault cannon tarantula. It seems like a good buy and is an actual gun platform lol.

[Guest]

Started comparing the hereticus one with the astartes one in battlescribe. Assuming battlescribe is accurate, it does explain the differences of opinion we've been having.

SM version has heavy flamers, Smoke Launchers, and a static 4++. Can also Pay for HK missiles. The Cyclonic Melta Lance and Storm Cannon Array weapon options are unique to the SM version. This version also explodes on a 5+.

CSM version has more attacks, hellflamers (Damage 2 heavy flamers), but only a 5++ vs ranged attacks and 4++ in melee. The Soulburner Ridaudkin and Butchercannon Array are unique to the CSM version. This version also has the CSM hellforged vehicle self-healing ability in melee, and like other hellforged, explosions do more damage to psykers (but this version only explodes on a 6+).

So, @SPaceORK I agree with your assessment of the SM version. It's a gun platform. CSM version is more melee oriented. Didn't think the difference between the two would be so large. My mistake.