DA+Ork

[Guest]

Was tinkering around with list concepts, and it hit me, Green marines and Orks. Not just for colors (though the green on green would be awesome), but the DA have those Friend or Foe Force fields and those flyers which can reduce enemy initiative to 1 (-3, which reduces marines and imperial knights to 1), which would be a major boon to orks which have initiative issues. Aside from all the fluff reasons they'd never get along, I think the two armies would fill each other's gaps very well.

 

Thoughts?

[dalmer]

Heresy

[WestRider]

Well, the PFG would require you to be within One Eye Open range, so you'd better be getting a really impressive benefit from that to justify the risk.

 

The Stasis Grenades are kind of meh, since a lot of the things you'd want them against are I4+, so -1 isn't enough. Still situationally useful, but I doubt it's often enough that I'd build a CtA Army around it.

 

The Dark Talon's Stasis Bomb is the really useful one, but it's overpriced even on its own, let alone when adding in the CtA awkwardness.

[Guest]

Well, the PFG would require you to be within One Eye Open range, so you'd better be getting a really impressive benefit from that to justify the risk.

 

The Stasis Grenades are kind of meh, since a lot of the things you'd want them against are I4+, so -1 isn't enough. Still situationally useful, but I doubt it's often enough that I'd build a CtA Army around it.

 

The Dark Talon's Stasis Bomb is the really useful one, but it's overpriced even on its own, let alone when adding in the CtA awkwardness.

Definitely talking about the Stasis bomb on that odd DA flyer. Seems like orks have enough flyer access to make the weak DA flyer a bit lower priority. -3 initiative would be huge with some ork units, especially the walkers.

 

PFG is 4++, so you could buff a stompa, or similar unit with that and easily justify it. Especially if you've got Ork repair units embarked on that stompa.

 

Did some more Ork reading.

 

I'm thinking the Ork flyers, or the Ork Traktor AA artillery would be pretty viable additions to the DA army, given their lack of AA options. Otherwise AA options are extremely limited for DA without FW, and rather expensive with FW options.

 

Beyond the above, a CTA list with orks and marines of any type would likely want to function as two armies, a backfield one and an aggressive assault army. Could also have each force designed to take a flank, with each "competing" for victory. Keeping them seperate would be the best option to mitigate One Eye Open disasters.

 

That said, DA are extremely well suited for One Eye Open allies, as they have 4 troops options, all of which can be easily deployed away from their allies and still be present turn 1 (Scouts have infiltrate, bikes have 12" scout redeploy, turn 1 DW terminator DS, and podding tactical squads).

 

Orks, on the other hand, are well suited to be a backfield army, just as much as they are able to be an aggressive army. Dirt cheap troops options really help this army with it's allies (grots).

[WestRider]

Orks can get a 5++ for a Stompa without having to worry about One Eye Open. That seems like a pretty big price to pay just for a one point improvement on the Save.

[Guest]

Orks can get a 5++ for a Stompa without having to worry about One Eye Open. That seems like a pretty big price to pay just for a one point improvement on the Save.

Certainly true, though the KFF is only good against shooting attacks. The PFG is a straight 4++ for the superheavy, so it functions against non-shooting attacks too.

 

Would very much depend on the army list, as to if the Green+Green list could work. I think it could go a few directions, with one being a list focused around a near impossible to destroy super heavy. That would be the 12 HP stompa with both DA and Ork support units. The stompa is initiative 1, so being able to reduce the imperial knight initiative to 1 as well, would be rather significant.

 

On the other hand, could just include the Orks to provide any number of other roles to the DA without the intention of having One eye open related concerns. Cheap units to shore up the numbers for RW or DW, AA units, more flyers, artillery, and so forth. The weird boy is a pretty cheap source of warp charges too.

[WestRider]

It may be near impossible to destroy, but you're highly likely to lose all use of it for at least one Turn, and also likely to have it stuck in place during another, while one Unit or another fails OEO tests.

[Guest]

It may be near impossible to destroy, but you're highly likely to lose all use of it for at least one Turn, and also likely to have it stuck in place during another, while one Unit or another fails OEO tests.

Well, OOE would apply only units within 6". PFG only works within 3". And that Stompa is probably 6" in diameter. Would be reasonable enough to have the only three units in range of OOE be the Stompa, the PFG, and the stompa's transported unit (likely repair units). Test only fails 1 out of 6, so not exactly likely, but not impossible. Odds are low that the three units would all fail at once. If PFG fails, not really a huge disaster, as the PFG is by far the more expendable element to this plan. The stompa failing would be very annoying, though it can still attack in the assault phase, so it would greatly depend on the circumstances of when it fails. If the unit embarked fails, which I'm not entirely sure they even test, we'd lose the repair for a turn, but otherwise no major issues.

 

Anywho, I'm not sold on the PFG approach, nor on the Stompa. Combo would be around 1k to get off, so you'd really need the rest of the army to provide viable support.

 

Still, in personal experience, super heavies are extremely dangerous if you can't destroy them quickly (a few exceptions, certainly). The longer they are allowed to exist, the more devastating they are. The escalation/7th immunity to vehicle damage results really gives them an edge in drawn out combats.

[WestRider]

On any given Turn, it's unlikely, but over the course of a 5-7 Turn Game, it's extremely likely that each Unit involved will fail at least once.

 

And like I said, between a KFF and Screening Units to keep away Assault Units you don't want to deal with, the Orks can get pretty close to this level of protection anyhow.

[Guest]

On any given Turn, it's unlikely, but over the course of a 5-7 Turn Game, it's extremely likely that each Unit involved will fail at least once.

 

And like I said, between a KFF and Screening Units to keep away Assault Units you don't want to deal with, the Orks can get pretty close to this level of protection anyhow.

Fair enough. Thanks for doing this little mental exercise with me.

[Threejacks]

Ive ran my Stompa with a MFF giving the 4++ vs shooting and bubble wrapped with 50+ boys all w/FNP also add another 20 Grots to space out the backside from Drop Melta cheesers,5 repair rolls inside one being da fixers for a 3+,oilers all around.

 

Trust me,theres enough shooting lists out there to completely waste that setup in 2 turns.OR,it lasts the game but gives up 2-3 VP`s due to damage.And keep in mind that setup alone is in the 14-1500 point range so you aren't left with much more to have an impact on the battle with.A well protected Stompa just cant do enough damage to make up for the cost of it.

[Guest]

Ive ran my Stompa with a MFF giving the 4++ vs shooting and bubble wrapped with 50+ boys all w/FNP also add another 20 Grots to space out the backside from Drop Melta cheesers,5 repair rolls inside one being da fixers for a 3+,oilers all around.

 

Trust me,theres enough shooting lists out there to completely waste that setup in 2 turns.OR,it lasts the game but gives up 2-3 VP`s due to damage.And keep in mind that setup alone is in the 14-1500 point range so you aren't left with much more to have an impact on the battle with.A well protected Stompa just cant do enough damage to make up for the cost of it.

Hmmm....Do believe you. Darn. Oh well, don't own a stompa anyway.

[Sugarlessllama]

[WestRider]