Pax's AoS Chaos

[Guest]

So true.

[Threejacks]

With the ability to summon back more units I wouldn't be overly concerned with mass artillery casualties.Most armies only use one warmachine anyway.

 

 

Pax,feel free to proxie for testing stuff out.I would think the only time you would need to be WYSIWYG is for events.

 

I know Steel Angel has a lycanthrope army of cool Warewolf minis form various studios he runs as a VC force:)

[Guest]

With the ability to summon back more units I wouldn't be overly concerned with mass artillery casualties.Most armies only use one warmachine anyway.

I get that. I've just been thinking about the concept, that bigger isn't more durable. This game has lots like that, where a warscroll with better stats isn't always better, and can even be more vulnerable. Maybe not to the point where every warscroll is equal, but it's an interesting concept.

 

Though I will note that being able to summon units back isn't a solution to keeping the army alive if the opponent can quickly dispatch the summoned units (or unbind the spells).

 

I am thinking about those skaven more. I had said they'd be hosed by being unable to be fielded in giant units due to the wound cap. But I'm thinking that with the low wound cost artillery, you might actually be able to field a big blob of rats as a single unit.

[Malakithe]

Yeah you could. I haven't looked at the skaven rules but I'd imagine they get number bonuses. Saurus Warriors get rank bonuses at 20 and 30. Wood elf archers get to hit bonus at 20. It wouldn't be true skaven or orcs/goblins if they didn't get mob bonuses

[Guest]

Yeah you could. I haven't looked at the skaven rules but I'd imagine they get number bonuses. Saurus Warriors get rank bonuses at 20 and 30. Wood elf archers get to hit bonus at 20. It wouldn't be true skaven or orcs/goblins if they didn't get mob bonuses

Not as many bonuses as they should, but some of their units are just not very feasible without giant units (like the slaves). Plus, the BRB does give bonuses to battleshock for giant units.

[Guest]

How wrong would it be, using Pink Horrors as Daemonettes? I could certainly paint on the swim suits.... 

Scratch that, looks like my old metal models all have heads instead of a torso, so nowhere to paint the swimsuits. I could still make them seem like creepy naked guys with monstrous hands....

[Guest]

Okay, so work in progress.

 

On major downer to Chaos lists (and other faction focused lists) is that a lot of the aura abilities only work for certain models. For example, that Chaos Shrine only affects Mortals and can give more potent bonuses if dedicated to a specific god, but only for mortals of that god. And while Mortal should probably include all the models in a warriors of chaos army, it actually only covers the humans....

 

I ordered an OOP Chaos Death Rocket (current rules are Legion of Azrogh Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher). In rules, it's basically a catapult. It was that or a hellcannon, and I think the hellcannon rules are more convoluted, with neither weapon being being crewed by chaos mortals (Hellcannons are Duardin, and other is legion of azrogh). Plus, the old chaos dwarves look awesome.

 

So, now the toss up is between Warriors of Chaos and Beastmen for my main infantry (the non-squishy infantry, since tzeentch daemons are so squishy). I could do both, but I run into issues where none of my auras work well together. It is notable that Beastmen are undedicated, while warriors of chaos work better with dedication (to specific chaos gods). Although has them, most of the other gods lack abilities that affect all their followers. I suppose, a third option would be to take entirely chaos dwarves, though I'm hesitant on that due to the cost.

 

Though one of the funny ones I've come across is that Chaos Warriors can be armed with "Hand" weapons and shields, so I'm thinking power fists and shields would be fun for a unit or two.

[Malakithe]

Choas dwarves would be awesome to see. Those are only from FW right? I can see how that would cost a ton but all of their stuff looks awesome

[Steel Angel]

Choas dwarves would be awesome to see. Those are only from FW right? I can see how that would cost a ton but all of their stuff looks awesome

use mantic KoW chaos dwarves

[Guest]

Choas dwarves would be awesome to see. Those are only from FW right? I can see how that would cost a ton but all of their stuff looks awesome

Only GW for metal, only FW for resin, and only KoW for plastic....lol

 

But I just like the old metal ones.

 

Maybe I will go with chaos Dwarves after all, but it will be a bit before they are the majority of my army. Even on ebay, very expensive army. The FW versions are probably cheaper.

 

I do like their Engineer-wizards (daemonsmiths). Hmm....

[Guest]

Though, with that dreadhold, the main concern is if the dwarves can see off the walls of the battlements. Suppose I could model a box for them stand on....

[Guest]

Okay, so the latest idea is this skaven model, the Verminlord Deciever. He lacks the SKAVEN keyword, and is instead a DAEMON, CHAOS, WIZARD, HERO, MONSTER (and a few others).

 

His nifty bit, aside from being awesome in melee, is this spell:

 

SKITTERLEAP
The Verminlord Deceiver or one of his
minions vanishes in a puff of smoke, only
to reappear elsewhere on the battlefield an
eye blink later. Skitterleap has a casting
value of 3. If successfully cast, choose this
model or another Skaven Hero from
your army within 13".

 

You can remove the selected model from
the battlefield, and then set it up again
anywhere on the battlefield that is more
than 6" from an enemy model. That model
cannot move again in your next
movement phase.

Note how the target is "this model" or "another skaven hero." He's not a SKAVEN model, so the intention is clear that Kairos, or another wizard that can borrow spells, could actually steal and use this spell. It also means that, as chaos wizards, they can use my summoning spells.

 

So, now, I could actually wait for you to come to me, then switch sides of the table entirely, and then wait, again, for you to come to me....lol. Such a dick move...but it has a certain appeal.......

[Malakithe]

The verminlord doesn't have the skaven keyword? Wonder why

[Norrad]

Okay, so the latest idea is this skaven model, the Verminlord Deciever. He lacks the SKAVEN keyword, and is instead a DAEMON, CHAOS, WIZARD, HERO, MONSTER (and a few others).

 

His nifty bit, aside from being awesome in melee, is this spell:

Note how the target is "this model" or "another skaven hero." He's not a SKAVEN model, so the intention is clear that Kairos, or another wizard that can borrow spells, could actually steal and use this spell. It also means that, as chaos wizards, they can use my summoning spells.

 

So, now, I could actually wait for you to come to me, then switch sides of the table entirely, and then wait, again, for you to come to me....lol. Such a dick move...but it has a certain appeal.......

First off this is GW so the "intention" is never clear! I will have to disagree on this spell. The spell also clearly states that 'the Verminlords or one of his minions' can use the spell. Don't see how that will change at all even if the spell is stolen. As far as the Verminlords not having the Skaven title seems appropriate. Fluff wise Verminlords are part of the Skaven society but have never been Skaven.

[Guest]

First off this is GW so the "intention" is never clear! I will have to disagree on this spell. The spell also clearly states that 'the Verminlords or one of his minions' can use the spell. Don't see how that will change at all even if the spell is stolen. As far as the Verminlords not having the Skaven title seems appropriate. Fluff wise Verminlords are part of the Skaven society but have never been Skaven.

If you want a rules debate, post somewhere else. I'm certain this is what it means and I looking at things for my army, not yours. If it bugs you that much, go make a scene in public or in your own thread.

[Guest]

The verminlord doesn't have the skaven keyword? Wonder why

Could be balance, but likely it's a fluff thing. Skaven are to verminlords as warriors of chaos are to the greater daemons.

 

It's sort of like how Chaos Dwarfs are the LEGION OF AZROGH, not DUARDIN. Despite the chaos dwarf crew of the hellcannon being DUARDIN.

 

And speaking of, a third of the beastmen are BRAYHERD, and another third are WARHERD, which means that beastmen don't working very well as a solo faction without focusing mainly on one or the other. The last third is miscellaneous and doesn't really work well with anything.

[Malakithe]

Ahh makes sense. Lore wise didn't the horned rat turn into a choas God too?

[Guest]

Ahh makes sense. Lore wise didn't the horned rat turn into a choas God too?

Pretty sure.

[Guest]

Not totally sure if he's considered a chaos god, but he's certainly a god in the chaos faction....

 

Likewise, current fluff has slaanesh being either dead or missing. Some rumors are around which suggest that the horned god will replace slaanesh, though that seems rather iffy.

 

Though speaking of Chaos gods, the Verminlord Corruptor (the clan pestilen version) actually has the NURGLE keyword, so he's actually a CHAOS NURGLE DAEMON WIZARD (and a few others). Which is good for nurgle daemons, since their light on wizards anyway (GUO is the only nurgle daemon wizard in the chaos book). The rest of clan pestilen models also have that NURGLE keyword, which makes me a tad envious of the rotten god's forces.

 

I do like how GW has 4 factions, none of which are GOOD or EVIL.

[Malakithe]

Yeah I remember seeing some book/formations with combined clan pestilence with chaos nurgle forces

[Guest]

Yeah I remember seeing some book/formations with combined clan pestilence with chaos nurgle forces

In terms of broken combos, they kept Epidemus and his tally bit. So those skaven plagueclaw catapults both benefit from, and contribute to, the tally.

 

Though he's a bit less broken, since he can't join units the effect goes away if he dies. Still, very dangerous.

[Guest]

Anyway, regarding skitterleap and borrowing spells, I'm unlikely to follow that route with our current format. That skitterleap is a neat evasive spell, but it doesn't really help tzeentch wizards, as it greatly limits our effectiveness by giving us less spells per turn (since using it is a spell used). If I had 3 wizards, including one that casts 2 spells per turn, if I skitterleap 3 models, I have 1 spell per turn total that actually does damage or summons models.

 

The Verminlord Deciever models are also rather demanding in the current format, as they are heros, wizards, AND monsters. So if I take 2 of those and Kairos, I can't field any pink horrors, or lords of change, or any other wizards/monsters. They also have a pretty high wound count each, so I'm rather limited with my remaining forces.

 

I like the Verminlord Deciever, but I won't be fielding one with a wizard that borrows spells. Just isn't worth it. I might still field that Verminlord Deciever, since he's a more combat savy chaos monster wizard. Still iffy. That 0-1 named model limitation is pretty limiting regarding the more broken chaos combos. All the tzeentch models that borrow spells are named characters. So by taking one, I'm denied another. I think the format is fair, but I'm annoyed by it too.

[Malakithe]

When you say borrow spells do you mean they can use eachothers spells?

[Guest]

When you say borrow spells do you mean they can use eachothers spells?

Yeah, several tzeentch wizards have the ability to borrow/steal spells from other wizards. Kairos can borrow from allied wizards within 18". The changeling can borrow from any wizard within 9". Vilitch the Cursling can cast unbound spells in the opponent's turn after he unbinds them. Vilitch the Curseling also has a spell that can allow him to learn spells of enemy wizards by casting his spell on them. The blue scribes can learn spells permanently if he rolls a 4+ after any wizard within 18" successfully casts a spell.

 

Tzeentch is the god of magic, so being pretty spell savy is kinda their theme. They are rather lacking without magic, as their models are almost always weaker in non-magic areas than their other deity equivalents.

 

Skaven also have Thanquol and Boneripper (both are one model) which know spells of skaven wizards within 13" (which would not include the verminlord, as they aren't skaven...).

 

Not as familiar with the non-chaos factions, but I recall that some of the other factions have similar spell stealing/borrowing abilities.

 

It is notable that none of the tzeentch wizards can cast more than 2 spells per turn (archaon I'm not sure on), while many of the other factions can sport wizards capable of many more spells per turn, with that beast Nagash being probably at the top of spells per turn.

[Malakithe]

That's pretty cool. Didn't know that. I don't know much about other armies yet since I don't read their rules lol but I'll start reading up on everyone soon