Pax's AoS Chaos

[Norrad]

If you want a rules debate, post somewhere else. I'm certain this is what it means and I looking at things for my army, not yours. If it bugs you that much, go make a scene in public or in your own thread.

Wow, I thought we were having a nice discussion on this new game and rules as they pertain to armies and interactions between them. I guess if someone doesn't agree with you and your interpretations then they have a problem! were trying to make a new AOS community here out of the ashes of WFB. Let's try and be civil and have good communication, feedback and give-n-take.

[Guest]

Wow, I thought we were having a nice discussion on this new game and rules as they pertain to armies and interactions between them. I guess if someone doesn't agree with you and your interpretations then they have a problem! were trying to make a new AOS community here out of the ashes of WFB. Let's try and be civil and have good communication, feedback and give-n-take.

PM sent. I'd love to have a civil, good communicating thread.

[Threejacks]

Kairos would have to have the verminlord deceiver keyword in order to use the stolen version of the spell skitterleap.

 

Basically we should be using all unit ,spell and weapon description info when interpreting the warscrolls and rules.

[Guest]

Kairos would have to have the verminlord deceiver keyword in order to use the stolen version of the spell skitterleap.

 

Basically we should be using all unit ,spell and weapon description info when interpreting the warscrolls and rules.

Is it really too much to ask to get another thread going to debate this one?

[Guest]

Bought some KoW Chaos Dwarves at GG during their sale. Looks like I'm going that route. I got 40 shield+HW chaos dwarves and one counts as dwarf sorcerer (Enigma Minitures). From that, I'll be making two units of 15 Infernal Guard Ironsworn (with full command twice), an Infernal Guard Battle Standard Bearer, a Daemonsmith, and an Infernal Guard Castellan.

 

So, looks like the army will be Tzeentch Daemons and Chaos dwarves, with maybe a few beastmen. No WoC or Skaven. Should be fun.

[Guest]

Okay, Here's my list for tomorrow's Game Night:

 

Morghur, Master of Skulls

Daemonsmith

Beastigors (10)

Infernal Guard Ironsworn (20)

Flamers of Tzeentch (3)

Pink Horrors (10)

Soul Grinder

Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher

 

Total is 78 wounds, 47 models, 8 warscrolls, 3 wizards, 2 heroes, 1 war machine and 1 monster. Morghur is my special character and is my general. 

 

EDIT: for the record, it is 14.5 pool points and 1429 SDK points. I didn't make it with these in mind, just how it worked out.

[Malakithe]

You know what I only just noticed? All the special characters for Seraphon are gone except for super undead frog lord...wonder why

[Guest]

You know what I only just noticed? All the special characters for Seraphon are gone except for super undead frog lord...wonder why

 

We'll have to address that term "special character" at some point. It's not in any of the books, just something that players of the earlier editions recall about the models.

 

As for Seraphon, I'd have to study the book, but the basic distinction in the daemon book is that special characters lack a summon ability and often include a description which implies that there's only one of them at a given time.

[Malakithe]

Usually the 'special character' has their name as a keyword as well as what they are so when people say named keyword it works. But yeah Seraphon only have the Slann guy

[Norrad]

GW did talk about that when the books or races were updated for AOS that certain named characters would evolve or be removed depending on the fluff/story. Since the Seraphon have the first re-done book it would appear that they are holding true to their word. Time will tell when the next book comes out.

[Guest]

Rcnjack did a good summary of the game.

We made it to the end of turn 2 and there was plenty of carnage table wide by that time lol.

The scenario was really not bad at all in terms of gameplay.It could probably use some secondary objectives to spice things up though.

Being a four player game,I wanted to see how the base rule victory conditions would fare in this case,those being the "force loss percentage" system.

This probably isn't totally accurate but this is what I came up with-

Me-61% casualties
Colin(my son)-62% casualties
Steel Angel-68% casualties
Paxmiles-77% casualties

Even though the game only lasted for 2 turns before the time limit was met,being a 4 player scenario there was actually a total of 8 combat phases resulting in some very nasty losses on all parties.Also I used the literal translation of models being summoned/added to the game counting as casualties suffered when they come in and I even counted the 4 models I brought in as casualties(after Steel Angel pointed that out) and even still it was a pretty close fight for a 4 player battle.

Paxmile took a big hit when his large unit of Chaos Dwarves got wiped out by some Protectors and Steel Angel and Colin both got knocked off the top spots when myself and Pax went after their larger blocks of troops during turn 2.

Overall,when these loss percentage victory conditions are in effect,it really favors the more elite armies.

Next time we do this kind of scenario we will probably reduce the army sizes by 30% or so and maybe use a couple of realmgates to teleport across the field with:)

Let's see, I went last both rounds (random turn order per round), and had about 25% losses (in wounds) at the start of turn 1, which included my Daemonsmith. My Death Rocket got Befuddled for both rounds. Chaos Dwarf blob proved lacking in durability after losing 11 models in a single combat round followed by rolling a 5 for battleshock. Of the two surviving wizards on turn 1, I failed to do anything with 2 spells and summoned a 6-man flamer unit with the 3rd spell. Morghur slew a beastman, but failed the roll to turn him into chaos spawn.

 

As pointed out by Chris, my army lacked synergy. I very much agree. My army was more about getting models on the table that looked like what they were supposed to be. My opponent's used much better armies this time. Not complaining, just means the units I thought were unusable because they were broken might actually be welcome in our group.

[Steel Angel]

I would wait before change that was a odd game. Play a normal game with them first to see how they run.

[Guest]

I would wait before change that was a odd game. Play a normal game with them first to see how they run.

It wasn't the target list, anyway, point was to field models I had ready, not to field a strong force.

[Malakithe]

I always try to build a theme with my forces. Did the same with 40k. Gives purpose and synergy. But yeah that game was a huge cluster lol

[Guest]

Okay, so been kicking around ideas for naming the armies. I'm thinking "Order of the Mutant Eagle"...then I just put 40k imperial aquillias on all their stuff....a perfect fantasy chaos army....

[Malakithe]

That would be easy enough to do but then you would need giant eagle stuff on your pretty skull buildings lol

[Guest]

That would be easy enough to do but then you would need giant eagle stuff on your pretty skull buildings lol

That one was a joke, but it wouldn't be that difficult to do.

 

Nah, for theme, I'm thinking that the God of Fiery Change (tzeentch) would probably have a pretty awesome forge. And where there is a forge of respectable quality, their are dwarves....And a fortress to protect that forge.

 

How about the "Defenders of the Celestial Smelter..?"

 

Stormguard go in, darkforge weapons come out....Sounds like a decent army theme.

[Malakithe]

Sounds good overall minus the celestial part. That's a token word for Seraphon lol

[Guest]

Sounds good overall minus the celestial part. That's a token word for Seraphon lol

Wouldn't want to offend our daemon kin, what's the word for stormguard?

[Malakithe]

They like lightning so stay away from that

[Guest]

They like lightning so stay away from that

Dragon Ogres are lightning.

 

Anyway, lightning can be smithed, just ask the greeks....

[Guest]

Okay, been kicking around an idea in my head. It's pure blasphemy, but it seem potentially like the right answer the questions I've asking myself about this army.

 

The SDK point system is jaded against wizards. Most of the comp systems limit wizards and summoning. On top of that, tzeentch daemons are rather lacking in the areas of non-magic, while reigning superior in the area of magic. To create a functioning army of pure tzeentch won't work within the common comp systems because tzeentch lacks the staying power I need (and in a point system, the staying power I am paying for).

 

So the question I keep asking myself, is how do I fix tzeentch daemons to function within the common comp systems while retaining their strengths?

 

I think the answer is Khorne. I know, total blasphemy: Tzeentch and Khorne. It bugs the crap out of me that the answer I seek is here, but I'm pretty sure that's the answer.

 

Khorne answers it twofold. First, Khorne has strong units with the staying power that tzeentch daemons lack. And second, Khorne has strong anti-magic options, which make, the already superior, Tzeentch magic more dominating on the battlefield.

 

I like the Chaos Dwarves, but beyond their artillery, their army is lacking (at present). When/if additional releases enable me to field a proper Chaos Dwarf dedicated force, I will, but at present, they do not have the forces I need. Chaos Dwarves will remain an element in my army, but I will not try to make them a majority. The Beastmen face similar issues.

 

Warriors of Chaos and Skaven are both very strong forces that synergize well with themselves, but both don't synergize with tzeentch daemons very well.

 

At present, I think the best synergy is Khorne (Daemons and some Bloodbound). This will probably change as GW releases more products, but for now, this seems the direction I need to go.

[Norrad]

If your looking for blasphemy and staying power then you should be looking to Nurgle. He has the staying power and some very hard hitting troops. Not to mention the ultimate hatred between Tzeentch and Nurgle!

[Guest]

If your looking for blasphemy and staying power then you should be looking to Nurgle. He has the staying power and some very hard hitting troops. Not to mention the ultimate hatred between Tzeentch and Nurgle!

Never really understood why nurgle and tzeentch don't get along. Seems like change would welcome an army of compost. Anyway, I'm not looking for blasphemy, just noting that my summoning tzeentch don't really function as a mono army in most comp systems, and need allies which enable their innate talents.

 

And I did consider Nurgle. Really, nurgle or khorne would have the staying power I seek. For purely staying power, Tzeentch Mortals also work, they just do a really bad job in the synergy deparment.

 

I think Khorne is a better match to tzeentch because the anti-spell of the khorne complements the pure spell of the tzeentch. Shut down the enemy spells while making your own superior.

 

I see much stronger synergy between skaven and Nurgle daemons. If I were to ditch the models I have, I'd start again with Skaven and Nurgle. Might still do this....

 

Slaanesh is presently without proper allies, though I suspect GW will address this at some point (and fill that vacant throne).

 

Warriors of chaos has a very annoying battletome, which makes them really only able to synergize with themselves (and khorne bloodbound). There are a few units within which have both the DAEMON and MORTAL keywords, which allow some crossbreeding, but the two are mostly independent.

 

Beastmen are much worse off. None of their wizards have durability. Most of their infantry horde is BRAYHERD and synergize reasonably well with themselves, but their minotaurs and doombulls have the WARHERD instead, which makes them rather incompatable. Then their Centigores have only the CENTIGORE keyword, so they don't work well with either group. And very few of the monsters have any keywords that work well with others.

[Guest]

Sounds good overall minus the celestial part. That's a token word for Seraphon lol

Looked it up, same CELESTIAL keyword for stormguard.