generalripphook Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Maybe this will help you my friend. Aaak why is it so small. But to answer your question Jake I believe that was only introduced by the Codex Astares which was written after during the Heresy and published after. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Hello there, From a fluff perspective regarding ATSKNF: * All of the Adeptus Astartes "know" fear. It's inherent in them due to their human background. * Astartes have been conditioned to basically look upon it in a tactical sense. Thus, due to their assessment of the tactical situation, they make decisions that are not based on emotion. Compartmentalizing, if that helps. Even in modern neurosciences there's a huge push to remind folks that fear is NOT cowardice. Humans are making that link. Fear is a predictable, physiological response to an environmental arousal. For example: the first time you jump off a cliff into the water, you get the "rush" of your HPA axis sending signals and chemicals throughout your body to cope with the unfamiliar situation. Jump off that same cliff for an entire summer and the "rush" gets less and less. You're conditioned to the situation and thus your "fear" response through the environmental arousal lessens... you cope with it way better. And for you adrenaline junkies out there, that's why you go searching for a taller cliff... you want that "rush" again. Thus, when one of my beloved Dark Angels sees an enormous daemon and all the chaotic-y evilness associated with it, the Dark Angel's brain doesn't fry and they don't hyperventilate, etc. They're conditioned through training and indoctrination to simply think, "hey, this sh*t dies to bolter fire just fine, form the line." From a gaming perspective: if ATSKNF isn't present in 30k, it's probably because when you get Astartes-on-Astartes action going, no one wants to squander precious resources on the "ultimate" battle. No one's a fan of being a martyr or needlessly throwing their vows to the Emperor (or some vile dark god) to the side. Mind you, I haven't read a line of 30k rules so I might very well be way off base. I do have to do a lot of work regarding neuroscience and physiological responses, so the first part of this nerdy tale is good-to-go. Stay safe, don 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted March 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 This is the way I understand it, from a post on Dakka: Pretty sure its been pointed out by either GW or BL that the original Legion training allowed for more free thinking and initiative set by the individual Primarchs' doctrine, while the post-Heresy Chapter training surpresses initiative and free thought for a much stronger codified doctrine. In essence, loyalist 40k Astartes rely heavily on their training, while the Legions relied more on brotherhood and combat experience. SJ Basically, the Legions were more "human", while the Chapters are more "brainwashed automatons". I think 2500 is a good number to shoot for. I have enough models assembled to field an effective 2500 points, though I can go to 3000 by filling things out with overpriced assault marines! Looking forward to my first 30k game not tis week, but the next. The BaC set is such a great deal it's hard to not base a force around them. In regards to which Legion, there's so much great fiction out there, I say go with what seems coolest. Heck, there are even options now to do traitor cells of loyalist Legions, so the whole traitor/loyalist decision doesn't have to determine your Legion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Warwick Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 BaC just arrived. These kits are glorious, and a great deal. Also have some older style rhinos (2ed I believe) coming in. As far as choosing a legion goes, it was a tough call but... Hydra Dominatus --- All valid points on the Astartes psychology. I too like the idea that the lack of ATSKNF is more than a mere rules abstraction. I think it speaks to the strength of the 40k Chapters as well. While the Legiones Astartes had massive numbers, perhaps more human bonds, access to advanced (and advancing) tech, and more pure geneseed, the Chapters are much more selective in their recruitment and have a codified interest in holding the line. I could also see how fighting against Primarchs and former brothers, bonds that would usually be considered inviolate, would shake even the staunchest of warriors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Alpha Legion is a good choice. They have one of the stronger legion abilities especially since they can steal other people's units. Also about ATSKNF in 30K they are expanding and many things they have not experienced yet. While in 40K it's mainly a time of stagnation and fighting to hold on to what they have. Which means they aren't really experiencing new things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted March 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 So Eli, am I right to think that you'll be the one putting together missions and structure for the campaign this summer? Because I think that would be rad. Getting set for my first 30k game next week. Pretty excited! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Jim does that mean you will have books present Tuesday? I'm thinking I'll come down and start getting ready for this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 So Eli, am I right to think that you'll be the one putting together missions and structure for the campaign this summer? Because I think that would be rad. Getting set for my first 30k game next week. Pretty excited!That would be correct. I have a lot planned (maybe too much). Depends on how much of the Heresy we want to do (like maybe just battles we have the legions for or if we want to do all of it!) P.s. I got a bunch of ultramarine stuff in a trade so if anyone needs some hit me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I mean to be honest I have competed 100+ missions I've written up/scrounged up/compiled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Um, I'm a little overwhelmed... Eli what should I have ready model count wise... Not points like counts of things Bolter boys, heavy weapons stuff like that. Are support/heavy squads minimum 10 or five? I know they all have to have the weapons... I bought a box of betrayal at Calth to start filling in bodies... Edit: additional thought what legions are set to participate? Raven guard, iron warriors, and what else? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 I might be a little over zealous with the missions. That's why I am curious about how big you all want to make it? Are we going for a specific warzone/a system/or the whole shebang? Support squads can be 5. But with the exception of the Iron Havocs (IW support squad) they have to have all the same weapon load outs. I am sure you have enough models to play Corey. Remember you can field 40K dreads in 30K. I think we have IW,RG,TS,AL,EC and Solar Auxiliary at the moment. We could definitely use more Loyalists looks like. I will try and search for a good warzone that incorporates all of those factions. Since I think I was thinking to big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 I might be a little over zealous with the missions. That's why I am curious about how big you all want to make it? Are we going for a specific warzone/a system/or the whole shebang? Support squads can be 5. But with the exception of the Iron Havocs (IW support squad) they have to have all the same weapon load outs. I am sure you have enough models to play Corey. Remember you can field 40K dreads in 30K. I think we have IW,RG,TS,AL,EC and Solar Auxiliary at the moment. We could definitely use more Loyalists looks like. I will try and search for a good warzone that incorporates all of those factions. Since I think I was thinking to big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Warwick Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 You will probably want to take a look at the Red books for the unit builds Corey. Many units are cross compatible but they all operate a little differently. Iron Warriors seem to focus on the big guns from what I have seen. I thought that these guys gave a good enough overview of the general list: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k) I'm all for going big Eli, as the Heresy is an epic tale, but the selection of Legions we have would probably lend itself more to a single star system or warzone. Hopefully Jim can recruit Adam the UM player for another loyalist. I know Don was considering representing the 1st Legion according to the 1st page as well. (His planned heretical army could make a cool counterpoint to your auxilia as well, representing renegade Imperial Army groups.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Okay group question. This is the heresy are you going to represent a loyal or heretical side of your legion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Heretical, terra must burn! Dorn's bragging must be put to the test and found wanting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 So here is the ultimate question. Do we want a campaign with missions every week or one with a map? Because if we have a map. We have a warzone with a number of planets and with unique abilities/rules. Each player/faction has territory. At the end of the campaign a faction (loyal or heretic) will Win and a legion will win. Points will be scored by land/special locations controlled in addition to each legion having goals. These goals can be conflicting even within sides. So yes heretics can fight heretics to get to their goals. If we have missions every week then one side will have narrative initiative and depending on winning and losing the other side can gain the initiative. Similarly we could have an escalation league 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted March 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Jim does that mean you will have books present Tuesday? I'm thinking I'll come down and start getting ready for this... Yes! For the campaign structure, I think the most important thing is to have it accessible. Make it easy for folks to get fun games against a variety of opponents. A narrative campaign would be cool, but I know a "true" map campaign can (like real wars) create some imbalanced games against the same opponents over and over again. Some version of an escalation league (though escalating pretty quickly, I hope) that provides cool scenarios, and a neat narrative backdrop would be worthwhile. Maybe even toss in an "in-fighting" round or two so Traitors and Loyalists can fight themselves (or their Alpha Legion-infiltrated doubles). Nothing too complicated ... yet. We need to get folks hooked on 30k before we (completely) blow their minds with Eli's epic-level grogdom. I'll start passing sign-up sheets around on Tuesday nights for those that don't check the boards, so we can get an idea of interest. A lot of folks have informally stated interest. Okay group question. This is the heresy are you going to represent a loyal or heretical side of your legion? Loyalist, though, if I need to play against another Loyalist faction, it's easy enough to say that I am AL-infiltrated RG. Because that apprently happened a fair bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Here's what I am thinking. 10 Rounds, 10 narrative missions. With 5 and 10 being apocalypse. I'll put out missions each week for players to play. It will start out that the loyalists will have narrative initiative and so to start they will primarily be the "attackers". As key events unfold things will change, maybe your warlord gets "captured" in battle and you have to play a mission to save him. things like that. It will mainly be loyalists versus renegades for each round however due to narrative changes some battles will be loyalist versus renegade and whatnot. Also please send me background on your legion force so I can grog out and write some narrative fluffy background. I think we should also let 40k marine and guard players to play so that they can get hooked and then get into a legion! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted March 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I had tons of fun last night with my first 30k game. The (undoubtedly Alpha Legion - infiltrated) Raven Guard gunned down Roberto Girlyman after he failed a 5-inch charge (with a re-roll), Of course, it took a plasma support squad, a melta support squad, a Kheres-armed Contemptor-Mortis, and a 20-man Tactical blob using Fury of the Legion, but who's counting? If it gets the job done, it gets the job done. Just a suggestion, but 10 weeks sounds pretty ambitious. 6 weeks tops seems about the most that people can sustain the energy for something like this. Beyond that, and attrition makes things fizzle out. Also, I know that others are wanting to run some campaigns soon - Joey's doing an Infinity campaign, and Sherbert is going to maybe do a trial of his new Warlands rules. There's also a Saga campaign book coming out soon. Since we're a distractable gaming group, I think it's good to make room for other campaigns, as well. Passed around a pad last night to collect some contact info of folks interested in the campaign, and about 12 people identified as 30k-curious, with many of them dead-set on taking part in the campaign. Split about 50/50 between Traitors and Loyalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Can I get those names/numbers/contact info? 6 weeks sounds good, with an apocalypse battle to end it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted March 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Yup! They're at home, but I'll type them up later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 No worries. I am so excited! Time to build and paint! This might be a lot of work but I am hoping to make each weeks scenario be different for each pair of players and unless they wanna specifically peruse a rivalry then everyone will play someone different each week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Warwick Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 The (undoubtedly Alpha Legion - infiltrated) Raven Guard [Alpha] Aut Mortis. That was a fine kill! I will get some fluff to you shortly Eli. I will side with the traitors for this one. Also, if anyone wants to do a combined FW order for the free shipping, let me know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyfangs Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Okay building my thousand sons but if we need loyalist I will build dark angels I like them too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyfangs Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Okay building my thousand sons but if we need loyalist I will build dark angels I like them too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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