Lord Hanaur

Yeah I think they are a great counterattack.  GREAT.They can explode almost any squad they hit.  Almost.

Vendettas are really cool.  A pair is so worthwhile.  Add in those Rough riders though.  Super fun.

Also, previously written, albeit some time ago:

Rough Ridaaaahs!

and somewhat, but not a lot more recently:

Beasts and Cavalry!

I love Rough riders.  I use them in my IG list.  Mostly cause i love how my Bretonians look on the field.  =)

Well, I don't even own a single one.  I just like building lists.  :D  

You do like doing that.  that's true.  i am going to have to beg Westrider to let me borrow his junk pile (read:  Tyranids) so i can play with them like LEGO's...and with each passing game, i will grow my LEGO construct stronger and more fearsome!  GRAR.  until finally it is winning tournaments.  And then i will cry from atop the mountain:  "LONG LIVE THE ABSENT MINDED PROFESSOR AND HIS CEASLESS PERSUIT OF THE MIGHTY FLUBBER!".  And they said it couldn't be done.  HA!

For the law of Lord Hanaur reads:  That which is awesome must be fielded.

I'm reading on several forums that Tyranids are having some good success against Tau.  Interesting.  there are multiple threads on DakkaDakka on it, with some stories and battle reports.  There are some in Africa, some in Canada, a couple in places Im not sure of.  Also saw a pretty good Youtube illustration of what Tyranids can do to Tau, especially Gunline Tau.  Oofta.  Not ALL end well for the Tyranids but there's a couple beat downs.  One good turn of rolls and deep strikes and booya!  Turn 2 can be a blood bath.

I mean this in the most civil possible way - but how is any of this relevant? While I'm annoyed at the loss of Spores, that's not the underlying problem with the book that the bug players here in this forum are actually discussing. Nor is who's to blame. The problem is the book has serious problems in terms of being on par with the rest of this edition, and so obviously so. We as consumers don't have to look any further than that.

Umm...  this is a "Tyranids are here" thread and it seemed very on topic to discuss that.  Plus, I am running out of ways to stay interested in the trend of "uh huh" and "Nuh uh" that it's turning into.  Correction.  Past tense.  HAS turned into.

So, its an aspect of the Tyranids arrival we could ALSO discuss.

shrug.  Im ambivalent, honestly.  If they FAQ that, okay.  But until then I dont think it would bother me.  

According to some online sources, part of the reason certain elements were omitted were competitiors poaching on their stuff and selling models.  Apparently there was a sizable lawsuit attached to this.  There's several places where they site (unnamed sources of course) as saying that play testing didn't start early enough and so playtesting results weren't conclusive enough by the time upper management forced them to "finish playing with their toys and sell something already".  I dont know the sources and cant verify any of it but its plausible.  

I thought it funny because I remember all the online chatter about 5 years ago where people were really upset at the way GW was always releasing things later than scheduled.  Well now they are apparently on a breakneck strict schedule I'd say.  Maybe they should decide on an author next time a lot sooner?  That could give him more time to think about it before the project ACTUALLY starts.  

Who was the project manager for the book.  Does it say?

He's not required to start in it but once he joins he's locked in it?  It would say that, I think.  I'd have zero problem with him splitting off later.

eh...I never said that.  Definitely would not say that.  Sisters work great.

It was this list:

 

Hive Tyrant: Twin-Linked Devourer with Brainleech worms x2, Hive Commander, Wings

Hive Tyrant: Twin-Linked Devouer with Brainleech worms x2, Wings

Tervigon: Regeneration, The Norn Crown

Hormaguant Brood: x3 10-man

Termagant Brood: 30-man with x25 Devourers

Zoanthrope Brood: 1 x 2

Venomthrope Brood: 1 x 1

Mawloc: x 3

Aegis Line with Comm Relay

= 1750 pts

 

from (http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2014/01/15/tits-tournaments-tyranids-spin/)

 

I just had pretty much the standard Nurgle Biker lord list (Bikes,2 units of plague marines, oblits, heldrake) w\chaos daemons (BioPrince w/insta-death sword and Soul Grinder).

What I love about this list is that it has five units that can be ON the other guys starting line by round 2, and 60+ scittering gaunts on their way and threatening in turn 2 as well.  It backs the enemy up quite a bit and sets them up pretty nicely.  I understand that enemy shooting will whittle that lot a fair amount before its down and dirty time, but turn two has got to be a veritable explosion of enemy casualties on the enemy side, many of them high value and if those monsters do nothing but hold the enemy in place for turns 3 and 4, that could be enough to allow the Gaunts to spawn and run to their objectives behind that massive wall.

It's kind of fun to imagine cinematically.

Certainly not.  Lol.  You can expect it to explode in your hand.

Here's another

Nids no sucky

Live by the sword, die by the Ordinance sword!

So I got yet another game in with this.  The Obliterator mishap'd so i didn't get to see him do his thing because the opponent placed it (mishap) WAY on th back edge of my table (naturally).  However the Mutilators wrecked two key tanks before getting shot to death (more than doubled their points).  The Khornate Raptors did a great double charge to kill a Tank AND Guardian Defender unit.  Dirge Casters kept the unit safe from retribution.  

The Defiler wrecked a Warp Spider unit that Deepstruck the rear of my army, and then I was able to score the objectives by reserving the troops and bringing them on from board edges.  Enemy Army was bottled up front, so all I had to do was contest with Raptors, a single troops choice in the Land Raider, the sorcerer.

Once again the Heldrake failed to be awesome, but it did NOT fail to draw a lot of fire that would otherwise have gone into more important units and THAT was worth it on its own.

If the Genestealers Pin the Tau Markerlights and the Riptides potentially as well, the Tau may be in for a long day.  Killing off the Tau Troops choices wont be too hard with Mawlocs running amok and absorbing all the attaention.  Just saying...  Could be good...

Well since I never have PLAYED bugs but twice (won both of those games using hodge podge forces) yet have played against them a LOT, I see this differently.  

When I look at the Instinctive Behavior (IB) chart I see pretty much all positives except Feed and even Feed has good results.  The chart doesn't even come up until you fail morale which you may never do.  Live in fear of what may rarely happen?  Not this guy!  I'll Deep Strike 4 inches from you because its WHY THAT UNIT IS HERE!

I am on a lot of forums.  And on those forums I hear VERY little talk about how to USE this codex.  All I hear is how bad it LOOKS (with, by the way, maybe three games to back it up if that before they spouted, if that).  I hear that ONE Instinctive Behavior table CAN bone you.  CAN.  But as for useful tactica?  Forget about it.

I think if you keep tinkering with it, you're going to find that what I said earlier is true:  Lists will change and results will improve.  I don't think they will be "top tier", but then, most agree an arms race isn't a good idea anyways.  I think this codex falls in the "Good Generals are going to mop up like they always do, but look awesome doing it" category of middle tier.  

And looking awesome doesn't suck.

The General matters.  I've said so many times.  Lists don't win.

FWIW, I played with the closest approximation of my old list (Dropship Buggers), vs. my normal Necron opponent, using the normal level of terrain we play with, and have just gotten ROFLstomped. Lack of Catalyst plus the Terv nerfs (esp Synaptic Backlash and the inability to pass off Biomorphs) really, really hurts - he Telsa-Destructored the crap out of them and bang, there go most of my obligatory Gaunt squads. This is Turn 2, btw. I had to completely change my counter-assualt to make sure my Feeders (Ravs, Horms) weren't out of Synapse lest they stop fighting the bad guys and eat each other instead 

 

What's driving me nuts most of all is that I can't get past the feeling that IB is a massive Achilles' Heel which most armies can exploit almost at will, both in play and with the player. The way you protect delicate units in all other armies is cover and reserve - but with most Synapse being large it makes getting LOS all too easy, and IB actively screws you if you DON"T have your babysitters. I can't think of any other army whose armywide rules are an active disadvantage AND a way to nullify that disadvantage. 

 

The bigger issue for me was tracking IB - as I started to lose Synapse (because it's going to happen), I found myself staring at the board trying to figure out what my critters were likely to do in its absence, then double checking, moving synapse back in, remeasuring at the start of each turn and having to randomize what everything does. Feels a lot more like a geometry class than a game, and adds approximately ZERO to the gameplay experience of running Nids. It's just another housekeeping thing to do for the "benefit" of playing the army. That's pretty crappy.

So you WILL have to change your list some then.  That happens almost every time a codex drops to some extent though.

Yup, it was a hoot for sure.  Sorry we couldn't join you at the AFK Tavern afterwards but maybe next time.  Great turnout and of course great games.

The Mutilators and the Obliterators job is to threaten vehicles and force enemies to make a choice:  fire at the tidal wave or...fire at the l'il 'itty bitty Mutilators.  The Mutilators can kill tanks pretty well.  So can Obliterators.  Obliterators also kill people and tie them up.  So do Mutilators. 

For FOC reasons I went with the one obliterator and two Mutilators.  They serve their purpose very well.  Toooooough to kill, attracts a lot of expensive attention and for a lot less reward than the enemy probably wishes it was.  But they cant just let Nurgle droppings fall from the sky and not clean it up.  bad habit of causing ruthless infection and massive property damage.

At 61 poionts a plop, well...  It's a steal to attract all that spendy attention.  2+ armor is no joke.  5+ invul?  yes please!  Tough 5?  yahoo.

Yahoo, got a couple test games in with the Defiler added.  Great addition, and totally getting more production than I did with the Sorcerer.  Backfield defense is better against Warp Spiders and the like.

Also been toying with deployments.  As always the goal is to defend the ACTUALLy important things by making the actually not important things an easier target.  Somethings gotta die some time.  Switching the one Raptor unit helps me take casualties slower on the side that has the bigger amount of firepower, assuming I hjave no way to avoid it altogether.  

The list is evolving really well.  I hope to do a follow up battle report once it feels tuned up.  With this kind of force in 6E, it's not as simple to design as it seems.  There are things on the board you can't see as readily on paper.  A "feel" for deployment is important and that is taking a little longer as the list changes, but I'm getting there.  Pretty fun experiment.

Tau.  So awesome.  And their army isn't bad either.

I think you beat Tau by:

1.  Focusing a ton on their troops.  Though more damaging units exist and scare you, the reality is, scoring units are the primary target in most games and you can lose nearly everything and win as long as you have troops left.

2.  Reserves.  Cant shoot what they cant see.  Comms Relays can help you keep units off the board and force the issue to secondaries because you simply have more troops than they do at the days end.  Therefore:

3.  First Blood at all cost.  With enough speed, Linebreaker is easy.  Keep your warlord alive and you dont have to worry about his.  So whatever you do, dont give up first blood and pick out the easiest to kill unit and kill it round 1.

It's no guarantee that you CAN get (or avoid) First Blood.  But Tyranids DO have the advantage of massive body counts that threaten and force the enemy into shooting THEM, with low chance of first blood, compared to the things trying to kill, say, ONE Fire Warrior Squad the Tyranids are focusing on.

Other things:

4.  Tau LD sucks.  Pin the Markerlights.  Then pin Riptides if you still can.  Infiltrating Broodlords in cover = good.  Who says they need to charge right away?  They can be your support units for a bit.

5.  Broadsides do not like Exocrines.  Nor Mawlocs.  Just saying.

6.  Tyranid Artillery does not suck.  Crowded FOC there but I cant help but notice that the Tyranid artillery essentially never "misses".  Barrages against Tau are great.  Barrages allow you to get past the drone walls and other defenses. like the Mawloc does.  I'd use a Mawloc, personally but...

There's a few morsels of biomatter for thought.