McNathanson

I guess I didn't realize quite how recent the codex was, I just saw it on the shelves and got it from Guardian. That explains it :)

I haven't played AoS but I'm hoping you guys can take a look at my model selection for my WFB Khorne Legions list and tell me if it would be a good AoS model selection? I want to sell it as AoS/WFB if it makes sense, to get more out of it from potential AoS players. It's pro-painted, has all GW's Khorne-specific stuff (their Khorne Banners of Rage unit standards, Khorne character models, etc.), uses all the most recent models. Only drawback I think is that it's square-based... not sure if that's a deterrent to AoS player? Anyway here's the model list. 1 Bloodthirster 1 Khorne Chaos Lord on Juggernaut 1 Khorne Exalted Hero with Axe and Shield 1 Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount 1 Chaos Lord on foot 3 sets of Chosen Command 25 (5 sets of 5) Chosen 1 Chaos Chariot 1 Gorebeast Chariot 12 Chaos Knights 6 Skullcrushers of Khorne 20 Chaos Warhounds 1 Hellcannon What do you AoS guys think, should I list this as an AoS army as well? Or just defunct WFB with potential to convert? Thanks, Nathan

I realize I'm continuing to be lazy but hey if people are willing to help... what's up with Army Builder? It seems to show some of the new units (e.g. Stormsurage) but not all of them (e.g. no Optimised Stealth Cadre). I may be doing something wrong w.r.t. formations as I've never used them before now in Army Builder. Is there something I'm missing, or is the current datafile incomplete? Thanks!! Nathan

Right?!!

This is great stuff, and gets me a lot closer to understanding what kind of army I can think about fielding. Lord Hanaur, thanks a lot for the time and knowledge poured into that post, very, very helpful. AbusePuppy, thank you for the advice on GKs, I'll think about how I might tweak them. But you know how it is when you get excited about a new army, it's pretty hard to put the idea back down :) So that said, would you care to take a shot at a build and general battle plan? I would love to have a few opinions to look over and glean from!! Thanks again guys, I bought the codex and will spend a little time reading it and circle back with some ideas based off LH (and potentially APs) suggestions. Oh and I still need to look for the list suggested by ML that fluger cited! So fun. Now if I just didn't have to assemble frikkin' models. Maybe someone in the area who is good and clean assembly and cool poses would take $$ to build them for me?? Anyone interested?

@fluger: Thanks man, I read the post you linked and the responses... looks like one thing I'll need is something(s) to kill his WraithKnight(s). I'll look for that post by MikhailLenin! @abusepuppy: Let's see, in past games it's mostly consisted of Eldar Wave Serpents with Guardians, and then a squad each of Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, Striking Scorpions, Scouts, and maybe 3 or 6 War Walkers, plus that flyer that can move laterally (turn, move, turn), and the WK. My GKs are usually pretty CC heavy, with Paladins or Terminators, a squad of GKs, Interceptors, a Storm Raven, and one or two DreadKnights (my MVPs, always). He's too mobile for me to catch and outguns me pretty badly... I usually get one good hit in when I DS, then I chase him around getting shot at. Only my Interceptors and DKs can catch him, and they aren't enough. We've swapped armies and I handled him as easily as vice versa. We even played a 500+ point advantage (can't recall exactly) for the GKs and they still lost. Maybe there's something I'm doing wrong with the GKs, but they just seem too slow and too expensive! But I'm by no means a 40k player... WFB was always my game :) @LH: no, Vespids just look dumb to me :)

Hey guys, I have this stupid Grey Knights army that is fully painted and cool and stuff except the only person I play (ever) is my buddy and his "I beat GK all the time no matter what" Eldar. He's a good player and I play once a year, granted, but even when I outplay him (by his own admission) I lose, just not by as much. So that being said, I am thinking of selling my Grey Knights and building a Tau army instead... I had Tau before and sold them to buy my Grey Knights, but that's okay because they weren't painted :P But the point is I've always thought they look awesome. And what kind of jerk doesn't like the Greater Good?! Anyway, given that I don't want Kroot or Vespids, can someone propose a solid Tau army? A few other optional criteria that would be nice if possible (but most important is that it's tough and can kill stupid Eldar and their walk-run-shoot-win cheating selves): 1) Fewer models is better than more models purely for $$ and time to build/paint sake 2) Large models are easier than smaller models since I have an airbrush 3) I like the Firewarriors (rifles or carbines, both look awesome), Pathfinders, Stealth Suits, Crisis Suits, Broadsides, Hammerheads, Pirahna, Riptide/Ghostkeel/Stormsurge etc models. the best; the planes and tanks (outside of Railgun Hammerhead) are fine, but not as cool to me as the others... basically, I like the small/med/large/xlarge robot guys :) Since I don't play more than once or twice yearly I have zero hope of playtesting and building a good army myself, so I'm counting on you, my Ordo 40k experts, to do me proud. Thanks a million for lending me your expertise!! Nathan

Also while I'm at it: do you allow models to go through doorways if their bases cannot fit? The plastcraft terrain buildings I have use doorways that are about 35mm wide, so that only 30mm models can fit through. We have been disallowing 40mm+ models from using the doorways, but that looks pretty funny on a Steam Arachnid Swarm not being able to enter the building, while Johan can :)

Yeah let's not worry about stairs for now... how do you manage a 50mm model standing on a 30mm crate? Do you just use the center of the base to determine where the model is, and ignore the rest? If the crate is ht3, does he fall if his center is pushed off the edge? What about two 30mm models on a 50mm cylinder/barrel? They can't both have their centers on it, but they can have a lot of their base on it and both be touching each other per the FAQ... can they be in base-to-base? Not trying to be a pain, but this stuff always comes up! Already has, lots of times, in our games :)

Hey folks, We keep running into clunky issues where a base won't fit entirely on one elevation or another. After looking at a wide variety of scenarios, and considering the implications (especially regarding base-to-base contact) we are leaning toward counting a model as being "on" more than one height of terrain at a time, so long as the difference is no more than ht1. So for example a model climbing stairs is placed on a ht2 stair tread, with its base overhanging onto a ht1 tread. The center of the base is on the ht2 tread. In this case, we are counting the model as being "at" ht2 (meaning e.g. if it is a ht2 model, then its total ht is ht4). But we are also considering its part of the base hanging off to be on the ht1 tread, so that a model on the ht1 tread can still count as base-to-base, LoS can be drawn to the part of its base on the ht1 tread, etc. The alternatives are also imperfect (and so far, we think, worse) for a variety of reasons I don't want to go into because of time... but if you have encountered similar clunkiness, what do YOU do (especially looking at you Mach5!) Consider stuff like a 30mm square crate with a 50mm model standing on it. Or a 40mm wide ramp and a 50mm model wanting to climb it. Or a 40mm wide ramp and a model wanting to push onto it from a slight angle. Etc. Thanks, Nathan

I haven't tried this one (I read about it in the Episode 21 notes from Schemes and Stones podcast) and I gather that it's still under development, but it's web-based so any device should be able to access it: http://bythetree.net/ There's a discussion/bug reporting page for the crew creator here: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/111915-crew-creator/?page=1

A small handful of the models are admittedly pretty gross but I don't play those models. Most of the dark aspect of the game is humorous!

Here's me wishing you had leaped to Malifaux instead... any chance you'll pick it up after Infinity, or along side it?

That's only about 75 more I owe you :)

I'm pretty sure that you misread; the vantage points are only ignored if they are the same height: "If the acting model and the target model are both on vantage point terrain with the same Height, LoS is drawn normally." - M2E p.42

Don't get your hopes too high, there are a LOT of factions and masters we don't have in our lunch-hour mix and from what I can tell, the first few times you play a master or even a really good model, it's a pretty good chance you're going to get blindsided :) That said I'm totally looking forward to playing with you guys this year! I wonder if we can do the tournament Friday and then just play pickup 'faux Sat and Sun?? :)

Praise the Lord! Or the Pax! Thank you :)

Yes sorry of course cheating to lose is an option if you have a lower card than what the Marshalllll flips.

All good except for one thing: I know you "always round up" in Mollyfox, but the terrain rules specifically say that terrain needs to be a full inch in order to get the ht point. So .9" would be ht0, 1.0 - 1.999... would be ht1, etc. This seems pretty specific in the rulebook; do you guys use a different house rule for terrain ht and round up? PS: I agree it's totally fine to discuss beforehand and agree on whatever you want to. We use walls that are about .8" tall and count them as ht1, for example.

Another thing that's seeming a little clunky/counterintuitive: if Model A (ht2) is on ht4 tower, and Model B (also ht2) is on ht3 crate, the vantage point rules do apply, because both models are on ht2+ terrain, but the two vantage points are not the same height, correct? So, intervening terrain of equal to or lower than the target Model B is ignored. So what is Model B's height for this calculation, 2, or 5? If it's 2, LoS can be blocked by a ht3 building between the two if it's closer to Model B than it is to Model A, which looks wrong from an intuitive standpoint (it doesn't appear to be in the way at all). And of course if we use ht5, then ht5 terrain between the two is ignored, which looks even worse. So I'm left to think that we count Model B as ht2, ignore ht1/ht2 terrain, and use the "passing above the base at a point..." rules for ht3 terrain. Is this right?

I hate how I can't edit the post title... that misspelled "Marshal" is driving me nuts! What is he, a guitar amp?! :)

So far I gather that the Marshal can auto-box a friendly (friendly "defender" just relents the opposed duel), but I don't see any simple way to unbox after that. The Marshal can't relent his start-of-activation duel, as (AFAIK) the Marshal is the "acting" model and therefore not the defender, so can't relent. Also he can't take the Pine Box action again (AFAIK) without a valid target. And of course he can't Pine Box himself as it's an attack action (which would need to specify that he can target himself). This leaves him with either Boxing another friendly or boxing an opponent's model, both of which require getting with 1" of the target model. This may all be just stating the obvious but I wanted to make sure there isn't an easier way/trick I'm missing to get (e.g.) Papa Loco outta dat Box!

Ah, thanks Mark!

Pax I completely agree, SO much better to make the model itself not meaningful gameplay wise! A very nice freedom to have!

One other point, you mention using the Malifaux Raptor's Enraged trigger to make your own models into Beasts, and talk about the low Df of your own models, and waiting to apply Metal Gamin's Metal Protection until after applying Blind Rage. However the defender can always choose to "relent" an opposed duel, and then the (rather than flipping) the defender automatically ties the attacker (with no suit on the Df). This results in a [-][-] to the damage flip, so the only risk is flipping a Black Joker and dealing no damage and thereby missing the Enraged trigger, or flipping Red Joker and dealing 6 damage (oops!). If this is a concern, you can instead cheat in a card low enough to cause the defender to lose by 6-10, which gives an even flip and minimizes the odds of accidentally flipping a Joker for damage. I do this all the time with my Sonnia crew to get around high Defense, or cover, or apply burning to my own models, or a myriad other things. It's a good thing to keep in mind!