McNathanson

I'm looking for a ram skull and not finding much. I have the steer skull from the malifaux ghost town bits blister. I was thinking beastmen would be a good source, too. I'll scan through the GW store today and see if I can find something with the right curve and texture on the horns... I could just take the horns and put them on a different skull, if needed.

I like it! I would definitely give the Commander the extra equipment, as he gives the abilities to the whole damn Coordinated Fire team. And I'm personally running the Burst Cannons on the Ghostkeels instead of the Fusion, so that they can try to stay outside 12" for their double cover save... figure they're shooting rear armor anyway so the Cannons should work. All theory-hammer though, I have zero actual experience so I'm pretty sure you can ignore me safely :) It's kinda scary how similar all our Tau armies are looking! Hunter Cadre w/ min Firewarriors, Markers, 1-2 Riptide(s) and Stormsurge + Optimized Stealth Cadre w/ 2 Ghostkeel + Buffmander. At least my stupid Grey Knight allies will differentiate my army from yours by making it suckier ;) What color scheme you thinking?

Just wondering if anyone has found a good proxy based on the picture? I've thought there should be a Guild Marshal style casket due to "Back in the Box!". And a six-gun obviously. I'm almost thinking just doing a head-swap on the Guild Marshal that is down with his cloak out, and putting him on top of a cage of some kind to raise his height. What are you all considering, if (like me) you don't want to wait for the model's release? Thanks!

Ahhh... I was missing that "Emissary of Fate" was the *type* of model, not the specific model name... I assumed the "Emissary of Fate" was the Resser guy, and didn't notice that the Brutal Emissary's upgrade used the same restriction text. Thanks :)

I'm curious whether Guild McM can hire Emissary of Fate (I don't see any way he can, but maybe I'm missing something)? Also, since there's no upgrade for Guild McMourning-led Brutal Emissary, does he just use Brutal Conflux? The Resser McM has a specific upgrade for his Emissary of Fate, so it seems odd that they left Guild McM out, in a way? Hmm, I'm confuzzled.

Doppleganger is a dirty, cheating whore. She's on my list, right behind Lilith ;) The rest of those Neverborn are just fodder for Perdita's six-gun* *by which I mean Sonnia's cleansing flame, of course!

I wonder if they'll bring back this classic:

They make me so cray cray with all their renaming existing colors, putting in new ones, cutting old ones, changing them slightly, etc etc... lordy, thanks for the totally unnecessary headache and wasted time and effort dudes!

[edit] removed dumb questions, leaving, well, nothing ;)

Awesome, awesome feedback! Thank you!! I can make the changes on the Firewarriors, but it only gets me back about 30 pts under 2k, which means I have to cut to get any of the things you suggested. My first question is why is 3 Ghostkeels overkill, because I don't want to have to shoot my whole army at a single target unit to get BS5... or is that the argument about Coordinated Fire, people suggesting that you can Target Lock to a different target but still get the CF +1 BS bonus? Riptide, yes I don't know why I didn't have the EWO on there, oversight... thanks. Will change to Ion weapon too! The Terminators can definitely go Psycannon/DH, I was just trying to use as few points as possible and trying to imagine what their role would be... seems to me that if their primary use is to fight assault units that get to my lines, the Halberds are pretty good choice. The ranged weapons on the Dreadknight are so expensive! I don't know if I should invest more points in more shooting on a model that can't join the Tau fun... but if I can find a good sword conversion for my model, I'd definitely switch to the sword over the hammer. Regarding adding shooting wpns, vs. the Teleporter, in the end I think I prefer the mobility over the shooting again because his role is to protect my Tau from deep striking assault units and other stuff that gets on to my lines, and that teleporter makes him so much better at getting into CC. But as a standalone model I agree the ranged weapons are worth it... in my GK army, both DKs carry a full loadout (mostly because all the rest of the army is irrelevant, hah!) I'll make the Firewarrior, Riptide and Commander changes and see if I can eek out the points from elsewhere without dropping the 3rd Ghostkeel... however if the Coordinated Fire rules let them easily get BS5 and still shoot other targets, then the 3rd Ghostkeel isn't nearly as important...

So I've got a first cut at a ~2000 point list, but I'm not quite able to fit everything I want. Here's where I'm at, please let me know what you would change! Bear in mind I have NO idea about meta or matchups or even what is in other Codices. I just based this off reading other lists and looking at the Tau rules, plus trying to fit in a few of my favorite Grey Knight models as allies to give me a tiny bit of CC: Hunter Cadre - 969pts (Supporting Fire within 12"; Units within 12" of Commander or Fireblade at start of shooting phase can Run and then immediately Shoot) - Basically here I'm going for the nearly-bare-minimum to get the Riptide and Stormsurge, plus markerlights to support them. Commander (Stim, Drone Ctrl, C&C Node, 2x Markers) - 147pts - Seems like a pretty standard "Buff-mander", and I can see why 2 BS5 marker lights re-rolling misses is pretty awesome. 3x 5 Strike Team w/ Shas'ui and MV36 Guardian Drone - 67pts x3 - I can definitely see dropping the Shas'ui and Drone from the Strike teams because at min size that's a lot of points to invest in protection that would be a lot more efficient in a larger unit. On the other hand I'd actually prefer to up all 3 teams to size 9, because I like the look of more infantry. 1 Riptide - 180pts - This guy seems too awesome to pass on and since my Stealth Suits and Ghostkeels are in a separate Cadre, it's this guy or the Crisis Suits. 4 Marker Drones - 56 points - Can my Commander join this unit and have 6 Marker Drones using his BS etc.? Or will I want to be able to Marker 2 different units? - Should I invest in a Guardian Drone for the whole unit? 1 Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver Cannon, TL SMS, Cluster Rocket System, 4x Destroyer Missiles, TL AFP, and Early Warning Override - 385 points - Holy Beast. This guy's just insane when he drops his stabilizers and shoots twice!! Optimized Stealth Cadre - 610pts (At start of shooting phase, can network stealth so that Ghostkeels, and any Stealth Suit within 6" of Ghostkeel, have Ignore Cover, +1 BS, and hit rear armor) - This is the most Ghostkeels I can get for the points spent, cuz they are awesome looking! 2x 3 Stealth Battlesuits w/ Burst Cannons - 90 pts x2 - Min required 3 Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker and TL Fusion Blaster, 2 w/ Target Lock - 430pts - I feel like putting 3 in one unit is better than splitting them up... at this size they get +1 BS for a unit of 3 MC, and also +1 BS for Cadre power, meaning they're already BS 5 with their CIRs and ignoring cover before adding Markerlights. So in general I expect the Hunter Cadre will use the Marker, and these guys will be able to handle their own. Big question is whether the Countermeasures can be used 3x (once for each model) or 1x (once for the whole unit). That puts me at 1579 points. I'd also love to be able to include my custom Forgeworld Nemesis Dreadknight, and the beautiful Grey Knight Terminators I have, but I'm over points: Nemesis Strike Force - 450 (roll for Deep Striking units to arrive starting turn 1) GK Librarian - 110pts - cheapest HQ outside of a techmarine 5 GK Terminators w/ Halberds - 175pts - probably a waste of points but then again so are Grey Knight Strike Force... 1 Nemesis Dreadknight w/ Personal Teleporter and Daemonhammer - 165pts - This guy is a CC stud and gets around the battlefield to help out wherever Assault units might be threatening my Tau I'm 29 points over 2000 with the above. I already dislike how small my Strike teams are. The simplest way to get under points is definitely to drop the Shas'ui and Guardian Drones, which gets me back 66 points, and I could even up the size of my Strike teams a tiny bit, or get Iridium on the Commander. I'm unclear whether the Strike Teams, Terminators, and Stealth Teams are going to be sufficient for objectives... I haven't played nearly enough to have a clue. But the Kill Power on this list seems pretty insane, and they're highly mobile. Anyway, that's about all the thinking I have... please bring on the suggestions, I won't have my feelings hurt! I do LOVE the small model count and with an airbrush and some tips on how to paint all the "creases" in the armor I think I could actually get this army painted in a reasonable amount of time. Thanks again for the help guys, sincerely appreciated!! Nathan

I definitely see where you are coming from, I just think that it is reasonably read both ways, and therefore probably will need a FAQ. But what do I know?!

I thought that could be read as "the unit will take the protection of the HC"... the very first line where it says "once per battle, a model..." makes me think its supposed to be a single model using it each time it's used. Clearly a big difference!

Holophton Countermeasures (Tau codex p.123) rule reads: It's not clear to me whether a unit of 3 Ghostkeels gets to use this up to three separate times (each model using it once to protect the unit it is in)? Or does somehow using one require all the models to all use all of them at once?

Well okay, May it is then :) Hoffman yeah I've played with all his available toys... Joss is right up there, Ryle turns out to be pretty solid too, and then of course Metal Gamin, Steam Arachnid Swarm, Howard Langston, Peacekeeper, Hunters, Watchers, Guardian, etc. I think the trap that people fall into with Hoffman is getting too excited about all his looping and upgrading that they spend all their time/effort doing that, and not playing Malifaux. That said, even if you turn your attention to playing the game, and try to make Hoffman do more work than just buffing and handing out AP, he's still miserably limited due to his short range, and his crew is often hampering by trying to stay in touch with him. Still there's potential in just a +1 Armor H. Langston and a Nimble Arachnid Swarm running around (the Swarm is hilarious at Ml 7). I just go back to feeling like his abilities constrain your activation order and positioning so much that unless you opponent says, "Okay let's be dumb and have a brawl with your Hoffball" you are going to get out played. I don't know about an "easy button", closest two things I've seen there are Lilith's Illusory Forest + Tangled Shadows, and Leveticus' activate/kill/bury/repeat. But those aren't enough to win the game unless you play well and that's not easy if you have a good opponent across from you, IMO! My main observation regarding balance is that, if both players are playing well, you end up with a smaller set of Masters that seem to be able to hang, through a combination of power and low cognitive burden, and a whole bunch more that don't quite cut it unless you're really outplaying your opponents. Eh, good thing we hire crews after announcing factions ;)

It is if we can just get these old fogeys to quit with their "get off my lawn" version of warhammer!

This, when I was *just* starting to accept that 40k has become a game futuristic battles, played on 28mm scale battlefield, using He-Man Action Figure scale models!

Paxmiles, what you describe is effectively the "house rule" we are trying out, which is that models can count as having their bases on two different heights, with no more than 1" difference, for purposes of base-to-base contact. However the FAQ states they must literally be physically touching, which I think is a short-sighted FAQ answer. If they just said they have to be aligned edge-to-edge (as if they were touching), but can but up to 1" in ht difference, and still count, that would have fixed it. As it is you can end up with really funky situations based on this FAQ. I know, a seemingly small matter, but it can change a game dramatically!

Oops I think you may have misread my tone... or maybe I mistyped my tone? Anyway I was just sayin', yeah I know it reads like Optimizing For the Win but it's really more of an exploration of the game's balance at this point! Sorry if I sounded harsh, I didn't *feel* harsh when I wrote it :) Great pointers on the Gremlins... those models are hilarious and my BFF/bestie/bestguybuddy just got them, so we'll have those little green basturds in the mix soon enough :) I have to admit (and again, just an early-exposure opinion!) that I'm a tad disappointed with the intra-faction balance... C Hoffman, for example, is so constrained by the range of his abilities and by the order in which is Robots have to activate that he's pretty much pants as far as I can tell. I mean I've won with him but it's SO much more work than with Sonnia or Perdita, which is in my opinion a good measure of a Master from a tournament perspective (i.e. high cognitive burden sucks because it's exhausting and leaves less bandwidth for looking at what your opponents is doing, etc.) Anyway are you at all interested in a few games to learn me on what Somer can do?? I'd love to get exposed to as many Masters as possible! I have a great table set up at my house if you're game for playing on a weeknight after dinner and kids bedtime... PM me!

Some see it that way I'm sure :) My brothers and I like to explore the game balance of a new game. With WFB this led us to decide that it was so severely unbalanced that we ended up being some of the strongest proponents out there for NOT playing purely to win, but rather working with your opponent to create a fun, close game in a tournament setting. But the jury's out on whether Malifaux needs that kind of attention, or whether it can stand on it's own. It has a lot of basic mechanics that lend to good intrinsic balance (e.g. choosing crews after announcing factions, and choosing schemes after announcing crews). And there are some really good players that say it's pretty good balance wise, too! So I'm hopeful that we can just play it as it stands and still have fun, close games!

Leveticus is a straight up beast. So far he and Lilith have my vote for most overtly powerful Masters, and his crew selection seems stronger.

Crap cast! I actually like it. But it's not as good as plastic :)

My experience so far is that there are a handful of Masters that are a cut above the rest. In our play group we've got Neverborn (Lilith and Zoraida mostly), Arcanists (Colette, Ramos, Rasputina), Guild (Sonnia, Perdita, LJ, Hoffman), Ressers (Molly, Seamus, Nicodem) and recently Outcasts for Leveticus. Of these, Lilith, Colette, Sonnia, Molly and Leveticus seem to be better suited to nearly all the strats, schemes and terrain layouts we try out on. We often find success with crews or elements of crews that "belong" to another master (e.g. Swamp Fiends, Ortegas, etc.) but are instead run with these 5 Masters. It's not QUITE an "anything you can do, I can do better" situation, but it seems like these Masters are nearly always a better choice than their faction's alternatives. Since we have only tried the above listed masters, I'm first of all curious if there are well-known "top tier" Masters/Crews that we are missing from our play group? I hear good things about Pandora, Marcus, Von Schill, Tara and maybe Mei Feng. And secondly, does this assessment line up with your experience, particularly the more seasoned tournament players among you? I am not trying to assert this with conviction, but rather sharing our observations from an admittedly-limited exposure. Thanks! Nathan

That's really helpful thanks! So maybe divide it into units of warscroll size, and sell them separately (but all at once with combined shipping)? I can go through the AoS warscrolls and see what sizes the units come in. Just to be sure I understand, you're suggesting grouping them into min-sized units (excepting the hounds), right?