peter.cosgrove

The discussion point then begs the question of, if you take Rubric Marines and choose Thousand Sons as the optional legion choice, can you then put them into Troops Battlefield Roles for a detachment that uses, for example, Chaos as the unifying keyword for the detachment. I haven't looked closely at Khorne Zerkers, but if they also have the World Eaters or whatever option, then can you take both Thousand Sons and World Eater Zerkers as troop choices. There are some added benefits to making certain choices, Ahriman for example lets Thousand Sons units reroll 1's for invuln saves, etc.

I/e What added restrictions become representative of fluff>crunch when choosing keyword applications if filling the detachment is not actually based on the choosing of the keyword and benefits thereby gained. If there is no real or perceived negatives to choosing a keyword then why even have the option to choose; it seems inefficient.

I was told that because of the wording "once a unit is embarked upon a transport the unit is removed from play"  partial sentence in the transport section of the core rule book then automatically according to both GW and Frontline Games that unit no longer counts as a unit set up during deployment. I was even told "what part of removed from play don't you understand?" and "go ahead and bring a list that has units in transports counting against units in tactical reserve, we [the two people I was having a discussion list] will make sure your list is invalidated"

The discussion point regarding optional factions determining detachment faction composition is perhaps more esoteric excepting the point that you typically gain 1-2 "USR's" by giving a unit a faction that is generically optional AND does it mean you can ONLY take certain units by that faction?

For example, Blood Angels Death Company, are they a unit that can ONLY be taken in a Blood Angles detachment where all the units in the detachment are required to be Blood Angels? or can I slice them out into other faction detachments?

My local playing group has been looking at 8th edition and a couple questions have come up that are perceived to be detrimental to play.

First question. When a unit is embarked upon a transport and is setup during deployment, because the rules state that the unit is removed from play then the unit does not count towards the number of units set up at the beginning of match play. For example, if 3 tactical squads are embarked into transports and the 3 transports are set up during deployment then for counting purposes against the number of units in tactical reserve there are only 3 units set up (the 3 transports) therefore if you have an additional 6 units in tactical reserve you have an invalid set up (3 units on the board vs 6 units in tactical reserve). To clarify further, if you put a single model unit like a HQ unit that can embark upon a Rhino with the tactical squad, then when the Rhino is placed in setup with the HQ unit and the Tactical squad unit, instead of the transport/HQ/Tactical squad counting as 3 units placed in setup against 3 units in tactical reserve, because both the HQ and the Tactical squad are removed from play during setup you only have 1 unit (the Rhino) placed during setup against 3 units in tactical reserve thus invalidating the deployment. This seems to be incorrect unless this is deliberately intended. Unfortunately there is no specific phrasing in the core rule book that states that embarked units in transports that are set up during deployment either do or do not count as set up units that are numerically equivalent to units in tactical reserve. I respectfully request a rules clarification.

The second question. When a unit type is required to choose a keyword to gain a benefit then apparently the faction keyword for the detachment is then required to be that keyword for the detachment and for all units placed in that detachment for the detachment to be valid. For example, Rubric Marines have the ability to choose <Thousand Sons> as their legion choice. Upon choosing <Thousand Sons> as the legion choice the Rubric Marines can then be considered Troop instead of Elite for their battlefield role. Upon choosing a keyword for the unit then the detachment in which the unit is placed is then required to use that keyword and no other keyword, and therefore all other units placed in that detachment are also required to use that keyword and no other keyword. There does not appear to be any specified statement in the core rule book that actually requires this chain of keyword application across multiple units in a detachment. It does state that a single matching keyword across all units in the detachment is required, however it does not specifically state that upon choosing a keyword for a unit that chosen keyword and no other keyword is then also required or not required to be applied or present for all units in the detachment and that the chosen keyword and no other keyword is the required or not required keyword to be applied for the detachment. I respectfully request a rules clarification.

Yours,

Peter H. Cosgrove.
 

Also in and scouts. Evidently dark angels for some reason are one of the only two that get shooting skills.

There is supposed to be a thread where you post your team after each match?

Bring them tonight?

Going to try to put together an Orc team. Lf anyone with extras from the BB box that want to sell/trade.

I don't have a team, I can play chaos marines or blood angels.

I got the message. just forgot to answer. Will be there

I have to pick up my daughter at 1530 so the earliest I can make it is 1600 ish barring traffic. My phone is 503-957-7906

I will be running nurgle. Blarg Blarg Honk

Going to be a bit late.

I will be late. but I would like to play whatever is available

Anyone interested in kill team?

If bryan shows up could you have him contact me 503-957-7906 about if I need to get a hotel room or just let me know somehow.

Date of Game: 4/21/16
Opponent: Chappy
Did you play 1000+ points per side? (Y/N) Y
Did you play a league mission? (Y/N) Y
Did you bring snacks to share? (Y/N) y
Did you play someone for the first time? (Y/N) Y
How many bonus league points did you earn? 0

The other thing I was going to say is that generally it's a good idea to build a list, play it a few times before you make changes because it's generally the player's ability that makes or breaks a list rather than the list itself. So it's a good idea to get comfortable with a list before throwing it away. This generally means that a losing list will lose faster and more heinously in the first couple three times playing it than later on, but it is also generally true that a losing list will still lose without regard to the player's ability.

It is true that there is a discrepancy between deployment and the term "after the game begins" in how deployment is counted. The BRB states that dedicated transports can only be deployed carrying the unit it was selected with plus IC, but then says after the game begins can transport any friendly unit. 

In the arriving by deep strike section of the BRB it says deep striking units are rolled for arrival like reserves "and then deploy them as follows"

The BRB continues to confuse the issue in the flyers section by saying "move one or more of their units out of reserves after deployment but before the game begins"

In the reserves section "when deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy some of their units, keeping them as reserves to arrive later, if it is impossible to deploy a unit for any reason it must be placed in reserves"

but the final cap is the statement "During deployment, when deciding which units are kept as reserves, you must specify if any units in reserves are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in reserve"

So the BRB does mandate that during the deployment phase before the game begins that all units,not just deploying units, must be discussed and must comply with deployment requirements.

Mostly I am talking to myself because I have used that command squad drop pod to deep strike other units before in ITC and it's only now that I have time to look at it that says it's forbidden.

ya.. that.. 

Alright.. the skyhammer is.. not ok. Not really. The devastators are generally workable with grav cannons but you are paying for the 2 assault squads just to get a first round non snap shot with other weapons besides grav cannons. Grav cannons are salvo 3/5. You can do the same thing with just 2 devastators squads. You can even split the devastators, put half into dedicated rhinos and the other half into drop pods that you get from the command squads. The command squads you can put onto bikes and still pay for a drop pod so you don't waste your fast attack slots. Mixing in BA gives the ability to get fast predators/vindicators for more speed.

For the psykers look at telepathy for psychic shriek/shrouding/invisibility. If the psykers are on bikes instead of rhinos they can cast the invis/shroud. 

The secret with iron hands is to mix in a sanguineous priest from the BA to give your IH a 4+ feel no pain. You can also use a command squad with an apothecary to give the 4+ FNP as well. With both of those choices you can put people onto bikes which gives one of the best all round maneuver capability.

If you are coming in with drop pods, it really needs to be overwhelming. One of the advantages of the skyhammer is you can bring pods in first turn w/o them being in your count, but unless you bring 2 skyhammers in and a command squad pod on first turn it's kind of like leaving them out to dry because the devastators can't really move.

The dread is ok in a pod. you get a mover/shooter and if you can plant the pod onto an objective then your opponent has to make a choice.

Really figure out as many ways to gain Ignore Cover for the devastators, auspexes on the librarians or maybe use Ravenguard librarians so one of them can take Hunter's Eye for the squad ignores cover.

Holdon.. stupid copy paste. I brought snacks.

*repost*