New player: DA/IG army starting with Dark Vengeance set?

[aurelius]

Hi folks,

 

I'm not a completely new player as I played Epic like 20 years ago, and fiddled with WFB a few years after that. However, I've never played 40k. I've been reading the rules and looking up info on various armies.

 

Originally I wanted to play IG/Inquisition, but the high model count sort of puts it out of my price range. My plan at the moment is to pick up the Dark Vengeance set and paints/brushes, sell/trade off the Chaos stuff and then slowly build up from there. I want to field Dark Angels primarily because I like their look and history, and the models seem pretty cool, but also because they seem like a smaller price entry point. I do want to win games however...

 

I've heard that building a decent and versatile Dark Angels army can be challenging (compared to regular Space Marines). However, I've heard mixing in some Imperial Guard infantry, and a Vendetta or two can make up for it. I'd like to have a nice mix of Raven Wing, Death Wing, and tactical Space Marines (and a scout squad?).  Maybe a Land Raider, and devastator marines? What should I pick up first after the Dark Vengeance set?

 

I'd appreciate any and all advice.

[Guest]

You've never played 40k? I'll try some real advice:

 

Don't buy any models, borrow an army. Lots of guys online that would gladly play a demo game or two with their own models on both sides. Use this to find out which armies actually suit your play style, as modelling can be adjusted to any theme you have in mind for any of the armies. Find the army whose rules suit the way you enjoy playing and the rest will fall together.

 

Finding your playstyle can be very helpful. This is about personal tenancies in tactics and strategy. This won't likely change depending on the army you select, it's just a part of you and how you play. Armies which are very poor at executing your playstyle will be less enjoyable for you to play. In example, I tend to field armies which cater to a defensive mindset, in this respect, I enjoy my IG, DA, GK, and Necrons. I have more trouble with armies like DE, which cater to more aggressive and self destructive tactics than I am confident with.

 

Don't play to win, at least not at the start. This game is very complicated, coupled with in-exact rules and FAQ entries. Learn to enjoy playing the game and learn the rules. The game isn't overly hard, but you really shouldn't want to win early on, as winning just means that you aren't getting challenged enough. You should still try to win, but you must go into each game with the goal of being challenged as the top priority.

 

Give it 3-12 months to learn, you might need it. Less is fine, but when games are often no more than twice weekly, 3-12 months is reasonable. You could probably do it in a single month of daily games.

 

For army purchases, yeah, the box sets are a decent route if you plan to purchase those models anyway. For your first army, I strongly suggest getting a cheap one from an online sale/trade (here, ebay, or craig's list). Shoot for 40% of retail, or less. Point isn't to get pretty models, just models you play with until you have the time to replace them with pretty models you made yourself. Getting some spray paint to make them all the same color is also a nice idea for a intro army.

 

After that, dedicate ~$50-100 per month in supplies and models and just slowly build up an army. Also dedicate ~40 hours per month to work on them (So, like a bit more than 1 hour per day). In both cases, more is better, but overdoing it can lead to a burn out. For cost comparison/rationalization, think of this as buying an xbox for the intro army, then getting a new game or two each month, costs are similar.

 

Oh, when purchasing models, be sure to consider transportation and storage. Some models/armies are really bad for this, while others feature more durable/small options.

-Pax

 

PS: Welcome to the hobby.

[CaptainA]

Welcome to the hobby!

 

The great thing about 40k is that there are so many ways to go about this and it is totally up to you.

 

The cool thing about Dark Vengeance is that you get a lot for your dough. You get a playable starter army and the mini rulebook which is awesome. I don't think that the army you get though is going to be highly competitive, so keep that in mind.

 

You can get somehwere in the range of $40-60 for the Chaos stuff in there, or you could try to trade for another Dark Angles contents.

 

You might also look for some army deals on ebay as you can find deals on larger lots.

 

In my experience, the better stuff in that DA set are the bikes and tac squads. Terminators are cool and fun, but with the prevalence of AP2 and rending weaponry, thy usually don't have what it takes to last.

 

You might also consider running the DA stuff as a custom Space Marine chapter - The Angelborn or something and use the rules from the Space Marine Codex.

 

Things I like from IG - Manticores, Vendettas, IG Blobs, Hellhounds, Griffons, Colossus

[aurelius]

I was thinking of using Vassal and the 40k ruleset to do this without spending too much. This would have the benefit of being able to learn from home and try various combos as well. I live in the Portland area, so I plan on dropping by Guardian Games or one of the WoW game nights.

 

I also do indeed plan on picking up stuff second hand. It'd pretty much be the only way I could afford to build an army. I do plan on getting a carrying case of some sort for transport. My main goal is definitely to play the game, but painting the models appeals a great deal to me as well. I don't really want to play an army that doesn't appeal to me visually. I generally want to go with Space Marines and Imperial Guard. Should the tactics style not match up well, I feel I should be able to use either as an allied detachment with another army later down the road or vice versa.

 

 

You've never played 40k? I'll try some real advice:

 

Don't buy any models, borrow an army. Lots of guys online that would gladly play a demo game or two with their own models on both sides. Use this to find out which armies actually suit your play style, as modelling can be adjusted to any theme you have in mind for any of the armies. Find the army whose rules suit the way you enjoy playing and the rest will fall together.

 

Finding your playstyle can be very helpful. This is about personal tenancies in tactics and strategy. This won't likely change depending on the army you select, it's just a part of you and how you play. Armies which are very poor at executing your playstyle will be less enjoyable for you to play. In example, I tend to field armies which cater to a defensive mindset, in this respect, I enjoy my IG, DA, GK, and Necrons. I have more trouble with armies like DE, which cater to more aggressive and self destructive tactics than I am confident with.

 

Don't play to win, at least not at the start. This game is very complicated, coupled with in-exact rules and FAQ entries. Learn to enjoy playing the game and learn the rules. The game isn't overly hard, but you really shouldn't want to win early on, as winning just means that you aren't getting challenged enough. You should still try to win, but you must go into each game with the goal of being challenged as the top priority.

 

Give it 3-12 months to learn, you might need it. Less is fine, but when games are often no more than twice weekly, 3-12 months is reasonable. You could probably do it in a single month of daily games.

 

For army purchases, yeah, the box sets are a decent route if you plan to purchase those models anyway. For your first army, I strongly suggest getting a cheap one from an online sale/trade (here, ebay, or craig's list). Shoot for 40% of retail, or less. Point isn't to get pretty models, just models you play with until you have the time to replace them with pretty models you made yourself. Getting some spray paint to make them all the same color is also a nice idea for a intro army.

 

After that, dedicate ~$50-100 per month in supplies and models and just slowly build up an army. Also dedicate ~40 hours per month to work on them (So, like a bit more than 1 hour per day). In both cases, more is better, but overdoing it can lead to a burn out. For cost comparison/rationalization, think of this as buying an xbox for the intro army, then getting a new game or two each month, costs are similar.

 

Oh, when purchasing models, be sure to consider transportation and storage. Some models/armies are really bad for this, while others feature more durable/small options.

-Pax

 

PS: Welcome to the hobby.

 

 

[Guest]

I don't really want to play an army that doesn't appeal to me visually. I generally want to go with Space Marines and Imperial Guard. Should the tactics style not match up well, I feel I should be able to use either as an allied detachment with another army later down the road or vice versa.

 

Ah, but a cool feature of this game is armies that "count as" something else. Fine the models you want, and separately, find the rules you want, then make them work together. Our game is very flexible in model selection, especially if you enjoy the hobby aspect.

 

Anyway, I don't mean to discourage IG and SM if that's what you are sure you want to play. I've found new players tend to switch armies a lot, which leads to greater expenses in playing the game, which in turn leads to frustration. IG especially, is often a very expensive army to start with and can lead to very unhappy new players - unhappy players also being the worst opponents...

 

I will note with SM, you mean a SM chapter, or the specific Codex: Space Marines? Presently, about half the codex options include SM chapters of one lot or another. Personally, I run Exorcists Space Marines and use the Dark Angel's rules because I feel they fit my chapter's fluff better than Codex: Space Marines. With the Imperial Guard codex, you could easily field a count's as force using the INQ codex, the GK codex, a CSM cultist force, or even Tau/Eldar/orks to represent IG if it suited your fancy. Visually, the army should look how you want to make it, the rules really just need to be represented on the models, but they don't have to limit your creativity.

 

As for Vassal, I personally haven't used it at all, but we do have members that regularly use it. I'm sure you can find a few regular opponents for that.

-Pax

[aurelius]

I am definitely more interested in using bikes and tactical marines than the terminators, but they seem to go hand in hand. I would like to go with a good mix so I can experiment with different tactics. I've attached something I threw together in Battlescribe. It's more of a dream list of models more than anything.

 

Welcome to the hobby!

 

The great thing about 40k is that there are so many ways to go about this and it is totally up to you.

 

The cool thing about Dark Vengeance is that you get a lot for your dough. You get a playable starter army and the mini rulebook which is awesome. I don't think that the army you get though is going to be highly competitive, so keep that in mind.

 

You can get somehwere in the range of $40-60 for the Chaos stuff in there, or you could try to trade for another Dark Angles contents.

 

You might also look for some army deals on ebay as you can find deals on larger lots.

 

In my experience, the better stuff in that DA set are the bikes and tac squads. Terminators are cool and fun, but with the prevalence of AP2 and rending weaponry, thy usually don't have what it takes to last.

 

You might also consider running the DA stuff as a custom Space Marine chapter - The Angelborn or something and use the rules from the Space Marine Codex.

 

Things I like from IG - Manticores, Vendettas, IG Blobs, Hellhounds, Griffons, Colossus

 

DA+IG 2500pts

DA
Warlord Azrael
HQ Libby (Sword)
Elites Veterans (5, 3x Combi-Plasma, 5x Melta Bombs, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun)
-Rhino (35pts)
Troops DW Terms (5, Assault Cannon)
Troops DW Terms (5, Assault Cannon)
Troops RW Attack (3, Meltagun)
Troops RW Attack (3, Meltagun)
Troops Tactical (10, Plasmagun)
Troops Tactical (10, Plasmagun)
Fast RW Darkshroud (Stock)
Fast RW Darlshroud (Stock)
HS Devs (5, 1x HB, 1x MM, Vet)
HS LRC (Stock)

Allied IG
HQ CCS (Stock)
Troops Platoon
-CS (Stock)
-IS1 (Commissar, MG)
-IS2 (Commissar, MG)
Fast Vendettas (2, both Hellfury)

[Guest]

Okay, so here's something you need to learn, how to summarize your list so people online don't have to read a icky blob of text. Also, GW's IP prevents us from posting stats or points on the forum. When writing a list, just write what's different from the stock model. It's also nice to note squad sizes and FOC slots.

 

I am definitely more interested in using bikes and tactical marines than the terminators, but they seem to go hand in hand. I would like to go with a good mix so I can experiment with different tactics. I've attached something I threw together in Battlescribe. It's more of a dream list of models more than anything.

DA+IG 2500pts

DA
Warlord Azrael
HQ Libby (Sword)
Elites Veterans (5, 3x Combi-Plasma, 5x Melta Bombs, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun)
-Rhino (35pts)
Troops DW Terms (5, Assault Cannon)
Troops DW Terms (5, Assault Cannon)
Troops RW Attack (3, Meltagun)
Troops RW Attack (3, Meltagun)
Troops Tactical (10, Plasmagun)
Troops Tactical (10, Plasmagun)
Fast RW Darkshroud (Stock)
Fast RW Darlshroud (Stock)
HS Devs (5, 1x HB, 1x MM, Vet)
HS LRC (Stock)

Allied IG
HQ CCS (Stock)
Troops Platoon
-CS (Stock)
-IS1 (Commissar, MG)
-IS2 (Commissar, MG)
Fast Vendettas (2, both Hellfury)

 

So much easier to read.

-Pax

[Guest]

As for a review of the list, I'm sure glad you haven't already bought/assembled it. It's a very tough win with that list. First, 2500pts is probably more points that you'll be playing on a regular basis. 1000-2000pts is the most common range, usually in multiples of 250, so 1000, 1250, 1500, 1750 and 2000. 1850 is also pretty common.

 

Next, aside from the visual elements, what are you plans for the list? How does each unit work with eachother? As a new player, I'd rather you tell me than leave me to just assume things.

-Pax

[PourSpelur]

 First off, welcome back! About a year ago I posted an eerily similar question. I had played a bit a long time ago, quit, came back and was asking starter army questions. I also like to win but am more interested in enjoying a good game and like the painting/modeling side as well. So it seems we're in a similar mindset. He's some observations I've made since then:

1. Find good opponents. I've been blessed with having great games with some seriously nice guys! My playgroup is tiny ( ie Fluger's house and his game days) but every single person I played I'd gladly play again. Thanks guys!
2. Watch some games. I learned a ton watching others play. By removing yourself you can see both sides, focus on the back and forth instead of just your army.
3. Love your army. I started with Orks. I LOVE Orks. I love converting and scratch building. I built six swamp fanboats to use as Trukks that make me smile every time I look at them. Unfortunately the Ork codex just doesn't work for me right now. I found myself having less fun each game. I shelved them. When the new codex comes out I'll try them again. As of now I consider them an army that would be a fun challenge if I were really good at the game. I'll never get rid of them but they're on the back burner for now.
4. Love your aesthetic. My playstyle suits tank heavy Guard. There are some amazing Guard armies out there but I'm not a fan of traditional guard armies. I like to play the bad guys! Not a grimdark Christopher Nolan Batman kind of bad guys, not an Adam West goofy Batman kind of bad guys but more of a Tim Burton Batman kind of bad guys. A bit wacky, odd and weirdly menacing in a cartoonish way. Finding a way to make an army that fits your vision makes the hobby aspect a joy, not a chore.

[ChaosGerbil]

A few thoughts:

 

Autogun cultists would be cool as IG veteran conversions, and you could even call their guns shotguns. If you cut off the little chaos stars, they are a nice bonus on a trade.

 

Consider running Ravenwing as White Scars in the Space Marines codex.

 

Have fun! Go at your own pace.

 

There are some strong personalities in the hobby scene and sometimes people get fussy. If that happens to you stay calm. Don't let an experience negatively color your view of the whole hobby. 97% of gamers are cool to play with. (Source: Bureau of Hindquarters Egresses)

[TW_Haines]

I would suggest Looking at all the armys before you  set on any one. I tryed 3 and the last one is the one for me. As for DA, a question to ask is do you want to paint those modles some of the flyer/skimmers look kinda funny to me.

Also think about what you want out of the game and run with it win loose or draw I have fun with a assault army. so thats what I play. Not the current meta but I make do.