Guest Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Seems like it really needs an FAQ. Black Legion's Stratagem, "Let the Galaxy Burn" has some fishy wording in the last sentance. It says, "if the unit is a Chaos Space Marine squad, you can reroll all failed hit rolls for it instead. Seems pretty clear that the intention is for it to refer to the Troops entry of CSM. That said, it doesn't use the CHAOS SPACE MARINES keyword which only appears on the troops version, just the lower case Chaos space marines. The further issue here is that Chaos Space Marines is the Name of the Codex, the name of a specific unit, and the army name. There's even a note on page 156, which stats that when refering to "chaos space marine unit" the term is a collective term to describe all units with <Legion>, BLACK LEGION, WORD BEARERS, IRON WARRIORS, ALPHA LEGION, NIGHT LORDS, WORLD EATERS, EMPEROR'S CHILDREN, FALLEN, or RED CORSAIRS. So, as written, the bit about it re-rolling 1s, is meaningless, as the re-rolling of all dice appliies to any unit of BLACK LEGION INFANTRY or BIKER. Clearly not the intention. I won't do it, but wouldn't be surprised if you face this in an event where the black legion player is using this stratagem to make terminators or obliterators reroll all hits for 1 phase (which can easily be combined with the SLAANESH additional shooting attack in the same phase or the KHORNE addtional time to attack in the Fight Phase). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 No. Only the Choas Space Marine squad has the Choas Space Marines keyword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 23 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said: No. Only the Choas Space Marine squad has the Choas Space Marines keyword. The last sentence doesn't call out keywords at all, just that it needs to be a Chaos Space Marine squad (keywords are all called out using bold text and/or brackets). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 ya but. The only unit in the entire codex that IS a choas space marine IS the choas space marine squad. No other unit in the codex is a choas space marine or choas space marines. And the codex is Heretic Astartes. Not Choas Space Marines. Wait. Hold on. The quote on page 156 that the OP pointed out "In the rules described in this section we often refer to 'Choas Space Marine units'. This is shorthand for any unit that has one of the following faction keywords: <Legion>, Black Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Fallen or Red Corsairs. A Choas Space Marine Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with one of these keywords. Ok. at this point I have to agree with the OP. This one needs to be FAQ'd Because if they did it deliberately then the rest of the faction stuff in the first portion of the strategem is pointless, even for Fallen and Fabius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 It's also definitely Codex: Chaos Space Marines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 heh. Good old GW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 So the quote for the short hand substitution is units not squad... the strategem calls out squad so it is only that specific data slate. This is not a keyword call out as it is not bold, it is a specific army choice. Astra Militarum has a similar call out in a strategem for combined squads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, VonVilkee said: So the quote for the short hand substitution is units not squad... the strategem calls out squad so it is only that specific data slate. This is not a keyword call out as it is not bold, it is a specific army choice. Astra Militarum has a similar call out in a strategem for combined squads. English, McFly, do you speak it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 however true any unit that has a champion is a squad. So chaos Space marines, Havocs, chosen, bikers, etc etc are all squads. It is also true that there isn't anything BRB specifying squads over units Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 You know.. BRB says on page 175 "Sometimes a rule will say that it applies to models that have a specific keyword. For example, a rule might say that it applies to 'all Adeptus Astartes models' This means it would only apply to models that have the Adeptus Astartes keyword on their datasheet" so what datasheet has the keyword Choas Space Marine on it? Because if the only reason this isn't the case is because the Choas Space marine is not in bold then blame that on the typesetter. There is nothing in the rules that I can find that keywords have to be in bold in the rules in order for them to apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 they mean the one specific unit how else can you call it out? GW is new to keywords... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 okay checked the actual book... all of the marine types are units but the strategem specifically calls out the squad. As it is not bolded it is referring to the specific unit with that title. Only the chaos space marine (In the troops) gets the full reroll as it is the only squad with that designation the rest are units not squads by the writing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Also all the other units you guys are referencing are hereticus Astartes never referred to as chaos space marines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 (edited) 57 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said: however true any unit that has a champion is a squad. So chaos Space marines, Havocs, chosen, bikers, etc etc are all squads. It is also true that there isn't anything BRB specifying squads over units Where is this defined? I could agree that it is a havoc squad but that it is also a chaos space marine unit... but not a chaos space marine squad as it is not made up of chaos space marines... it is made up of havocs I checked Edit: it is only a chaos space marine unit based on a definition so it would be a fallacy to substitute squad for unit when applying chaos space marine unit. Edited November 11, 2017 by VonVilkee For clarity, maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter.cosgrove Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 5 hours ago, VonVilkee said: Edit: it is only a chaos space marine unit based on a definition so it would be a fallacy to substitute squad for unit when applying chaos space marine unit. Exactly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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