Ethereal Slann/Monster Mash Lizzies: 2.5k

[Munkie]

Meh, I guess we'd have to see. RxB are so inefficient against skinks that they'd have trouble getting much traction. 20 shots needing 6s more often than not translates to ~2 dead skinks per turn. 10 skinks throwing javelins nets ~1 dark rider/warlock. I'd happily trade shots all game, considering one dark rider unit costs about the same as all 3 skink units.

[Munkie]

Oops, double post.

[ratrek]

Skinks javelineers have a 5+ armor save. 6+ scaly skin and shields.

 

Those things are damn pesky.

 

When I get around to Lizards again, I'm rolling with a bunch of ranked up Javy Cohorts. They're cheap, fill up standards for missons and 20 poison shots when charged doesn't suck at all.

[MexicanNinja]

What I can say, I've played many lizardmen armies with my army and the skinks haven't done enough to my dark riders in any of the games to make me respect them.  I've also had games with the 4D6 thing as well and that has made little impact.  skinks have crap for ld, you just kill enough to force that panic check.  3D6 or not, it's still a hard one to make.

[Munkie]

Oh man, don't I know it! Those guys can definitely bail at the wrong time sometimes. I've got no illusions the fact that all the skinks would die in that battle, but I think they'd still prove their worth. But once they're dead, dark riders don't really present a credible threat to pretty much anything else in the list.

 

I do like those 10 strong blocks of riders. They sound like they'd be brutal against armies with more rank-n-file infantry.

[lustriangod2]

Well the GW writers weren't as nice to us as they were to DE players. DE players were truly blessed by their book. My answer to that would be to still bring skinks but give them help with those 10 units by bringing an ancient Stegadon, 3 units of Terradons, and either my razors or my salamanders. You see I will just keep shooting at you from every direction until 10 become 5, and then 5 become 1. Every army has an answer, DE are no different, we just need to play them a bit to figure what your kriptonite is.

[Munkie]

The issue DE have, is they pretty much cap out at str 6. Re-roll 1s to wound helps a little, but for the most part they really struggle with multiple monsters.

[MexicanNinja]

The issue DE have, is they pretty much cap out at str 6. Re-roll 1s to wound helps a little, but for the most part they really struggle with multiple monsters.

Are you sure they struggle, I've been doing just fine?  What kind of DE lists have you been playing?

 

Which brings me to my next question.  Are you sure you have the strongest magic phase?  Dark Elves with a level 4 dark wizard can lay down a bunch of spells per turn.  I'm just confused now.

[Munkie]

Yeah that was probably a misleadingly brief post. What I mean is, DE don't have any reliable tools for dealing with monsters. There is nothing in that whole book that makes me go "whoa, that's gonna be rough for my stegadons." Their ability to shoot monsters is crap. Their ability to chop up monsters in CC is less than impressive. You can play to mitigate them but you don't really have noteworthy anti-monster tools.

 

As far as the magic phase goes, I didn't mean he brings the strongest magic phase in the game, just the strongest one Lizardmen can bring. One of the 5 roles that only he can fill in the entire book. I like the efficiency of one model covering so many bases.

[MexicanNinja]

Gotcha on the slann role.

 

I think you are mistaken with the dark elf book.  A master with a lance and CoT can eat up a monster in a single round of combat.

[Munkie]

Gotcha on the slann role.

 

I think you are mistaken with the dark elf book.  A master with a lance and CoT can eat up a monster in a single round of combat.

 

True, but it also relies on getting the charge and wounding with at least 2 of his 3 attacks, and having those 2 wounds turn into at least 5 wounds. Just get the charge and roll above average at every step, and it's a fantastic solution.

[MexicanNinja]

True, but it also relies on getting the charge and wounding with at least 2 of his 3 attacks, and having those 2 wounds turn into at least 5 wounds. Just get the charge and roll above average at every step, and it's a fantastic solution.

 

 

Roll above average?  Again, I am confused.  You don't need to win by killing out right.  The odds of the character gettign the charge is very likely.  10" plus the highest of 2 dice of 3D6 (roughly 17").  Hitting on 3's (re-rolling misses), and wounding on 4's (re-rolling 1's) and then -3 to armour saves.  You should get about 3 wounds.  Then, they attack back and hit on either 4's or 5's with, maybe wound twice and maybe get a wound past a 4+ armour save (after modifiers).  Stegadon loses by 3, on average, with no re-roll or general LD nearby, they run more often then stay.

 

All the DE player has to do is roll avergage.  I am still extremely confused at why you continue to think DE just don't have the tools, unless they get extremely lucky or get superior dice rolls, that they struggle against these types of lists.

 

Heck, with the amount of lists running a level 4 on a dark peg with lore of death.  You could pretty much just sig spell them off the table without even needing to engage them.  Of course with this solution, there are much more variables to put into play.

[ClassicFlava]

Stegs are stubborn so they stay more than they run. Chances arw good that the general would bw within 12 inches which means breaking the steg is nigh imposible. After the first round you lose your lance bonus so.it becomes much more difficult for you

[Munkie]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on what's "reliable". Counting on the general not being in range is not reliable. Counting on failing a stubborn, Ld 6, cold blooded break test is not reliable (statistically, they stay more than they run, actually). Counting on getting the charge is not reliable. Yes, you have a higher movement value, but you know as well as I do that's only part of the equation.

 

I'm not saying you can't beat monsters or monster heavy lists, just that the lack of high str attacks, and lack of potent war machines means DE struggle more than most.

[MexicanNinja]

Yes, we're going to have to agree to disagree with this.