Ethereal Slann/Monster Mash Lizzies: 2.5k

[Munkie]

So here's the latest list concept:

 

470: Slann w/ Becalming Cogitation, Wandering Deliberation, Higher State of Consciousness; Cube of darkness; BSB

 

125: Skink Priest w/ Lvl 2 (Lore of Beasts); Dispel Scroll

 

367: Scar-Vet w/ Halberd, Armor of Destiny; Carnosaur, Loping Stride

 

130: Scar-Vet w/ Great weapon, light armor; Sacred Stegadon Helm,

 

470: 40 Saurus w/ Spears, full command

 

70: 10 Skink Skirmishers w/ Javelins and shields

 

70: 10 Skink Skirmishers w/ Javelins and shields

 

70: 10 Skink Skirmishers w/ Javelins and shields

 

144: 4 Terradons w/ Fireleach bolas

 

250: Ancient Steg w/ Sharpened Horns

 

250: Ancient Steg w/ Sharpened Horns

 

84: Salamander w/ Extra handler (or "dessert" as I like to call him)

 

Total: 2500

 

I got to play a battle with a nearly identical list last night against WE, and suffice to say, it didn't go well. The only units that performed as well as you'd expect (or better) were the skinks and the terradons. Literally everything else under-performed for a variety of tactical, statistical, and plain ol' brain fart reasons. While I learned a lot in how to play the list, I learned almost nothing about the list itself.

 

So it's still more-or-less at the concept stage, but here's the idea:

 

It all starts with the Slann. Higher State of Consciousness is obscenely expensive, but I look at it as spending points to save points.  Making him ethereal side-steps a lot of the issues I've had with a more conventional Slann. TG have been routinely disappointing, and every miscast on the chart is really bad when he's smack dab in the middle of the unit. Also, there's no other good unit for him to join in the book. He has the wrong base size so he's a canon ball away from toast, and attacks can be directed at him in combat. By taking him out of the unit, half of the miscast results are considerably less destructive. Since he's not in a unit, nobody around him is getting hurt, and he ignores half the wounds he'd take anyway. Aside from dying outright, only the 10+ is really bad. With ethereal, he can hover around behind my lines lending out Ld and BSB wherever it's needed most without much fear of reprisal. He'll do really well by staying near the stegadons and milking that stubborn for all it's worth.

 

He does have a new set of vulnerabilities like magic missiles and magical shooting (dwarves and skaven), but oh well. He's thematically awesome and liberatingly versatile. To compensate for the magic missiles I've got a pretty brutal anti-magic phase. 2 scroll-like things and re-rolling my first failed dispel per turn (I forgot that all game). I don't have a great answer to the magical shooting other than hoping his freedom with terrain, target saturation, and my speedy elements can counter those before they kill him, but that's alright. I played against a very forest spirit heavy army but I was able to keep him away from the myriad of magical attacks, both shooting and CC all game.

 

The horde of saurus w/ scar vet is new for me but I like it. I've been running blocks of 30+ saurus and it's kinda silly not to spend a few more points to give the option to horde up and give them some tactical versatility. The scar vat either stays with them to add some heavy-hitting punch or jumps out to act as bodyguard for the Slann if he gets penned in.

 

The rest of it is all about getting the right monsters to hit the right units and pound them into dust. I really hope I can make this list because it covers all the bases of what I like about the lizardmen, and I think it will also be less common than many other builds.

[ClassicFlava]

If you give the slann a flying carpet he becomes much more mobile. Juat a thought. I have been toying with a similar list myself. I would put the stegadon hwlm on the scar vet mounted on the carnasaur so hw can take advamtage of impact hits more often

[Munkie]

If you give the slann a flying carpet he becomes much more mobile. Juat a thought. I have been toying with a similar list myself. I would put the stegadon hwlm on the scar vet mounted on the carnasaur so hw can take advamtage of impact hits more often

 

If only! I used to love ethereal slann with the carpet in the last book, but the new book shut it down (for good reason). Arabyan Carpet specifies models on foot only, and the panlanquin rule says they never count as models on foot. Move 4 is as fast as he gets. On the upside, he's almost impossible to march block ;)

 

I like the ward save on the carnosaur rider because he is totally cannon bait. I don't care that much about the impact hits, the T6 and the +1 armor are why I buy the Stegadon helm.

[HeroZero]

Actually ethereal slann are stupidly survivable

-ethereal is awesome for its own reasons

-4+ ward because awesome

-4+ look out sir because counts as infantry

-2+ ward vs fire because you took the gem ( hint take the gem, fully half of magic missiles and shooty is flaming)

-BSB = +2 static CR

- smoke and mirrors swapping with skinks.

 

Ethereal slann are no joke.

[MexicanNinja]

I laugh at ethereal slanns.  They aren't that hard to deal with.

[HeroZero]

For a good chunk of armies not so much. I think only DE can easily deal with them.... Stupid warlocks.

[MexicanNinja]

Any army with a cheap magic missile kills him, if he's on his own.  Or, you charge the unit he's in, crush them, break him, run him down.

 

Your ancient stegadons scare me the most in your list.

[lustriangod2]

First off, Ethereal slanns should not be out venturing on their own. They are to powerful and to expensive for a stray

Random magic missile to take him out. He actually should never see combat unless he is in a block of TG 20+, and then he should be a last option or an easy combat for that unit to handle. You see the slann is a trickster in his ploys.

[HeroZero]

MN- Cheap MM most assuredly don't kill a well built ethereal slann easily. If the player takes the "right" gear.

First the cast has to go through the unreliable magic phase.

Then wound (t4) with enough hits

Then get past a 2+ ward save.

Then do 3 wounds.

Possible yes,but not likely.

That's why obsidian talisman (Mr2) or the dragonbane gem + lichebone pennant combo is so ungodly.necessary for ethereal slann.

 

Your far more likely to pop one in CC with fast cav with magic attacks, because crumble.

 

And yes ancient stegadons are the bee's knees.

[HeroZero]

First off, Ethereal slanns should not be out venturing on their own. They are to powerful and to expensive for a stray

Random magic missile to take him out. He actually should never see combat unless he is in a block of TG 20+, and then he should be a last option or an easy combat for that unit to handle. You see the slann is a trickster in his ploys.

Except you know that part where he cannot join a unit.

[Munkie]

I know the ethereal slann is a gamble and I'm alright with it. The fact is, the "easiest" way to kill him is magic. Relying on getting past a level 4 mage who can re-roll his first failed dispel attempt, and basically 2 scrolls is very optimistic.

 

I don't think DE would pose much of a threat to him, unless they are spamming warlocks. Fast cav gets chewed to pieces by all of my extremely mobile shooting. All of the advantages that fast cav have are essentially wasted against my army. Warlocks would really have to over-expose themselves to even get a good shot at blasting the Slann, and they're toast if it doesn't pay off.

 

I would like to add some more defense on the Slann if I could, however, but points are a little tight right now. If I find that I'm having issues with survivability I might try to free up some points (I'm looking at you, salamander) for it.

[HeroZero]

I see 33 available points. More than enough for the best money can buy.

[Munkie]

Care to divulge? I'm open to ideas (even if I might reject them )

[MexicanNinja]

@Hero- I was't tracking MR2 on top of the 4+ ward.  I get it now.

 

@Munkie- It's not the dark riders, it's everything else.  I've hit the Slann bunker many times with units of 10 or less and wiped them to not be steadfast.  Heck, even when I played Skaven, my assassins would chew them in pretty much 1 round of combat.  Oh, and a unit of 10 dark riders could beat the Slann through combat res with a charge.  They start with +3CR(charge+rank+banner).  If the slann wiffs, he loses by 3.

 

The point I am trying to make here is that the ethereal isn't an issue.  The frog doesn't do anything other than cast spells, period.  He has a single roll.  Even if he's in a unit, no one really cares, you just need to crush the unit he's in.  I don't think him being ethereal offers him any more protection than placing him in a unit.

 

One last thing. Munkie, I will accept a 2.5k challenge.  I will put my worthless fast cav up against your shooting.

[HeroZero]

@munkie the cowboy and bolas are where you can get points

@MN the Slann generates 2 static CR every turn. So tie or whiff he can plant you a round and smoke out. He's actually much safer than a TG unit.

[MexicanNinja]

How's he generating 2 CR?  I am calculating 1 for a bsb.  If it's from an upgrade, I'm not familar with the book to know about army specific options.  All I do know, is that I have yet to fear a slann.  This extends back to last edition when they could actually do stuff.

[HeroZero]

@MN. 1 for standard, 1 for Battle Standard = 2

[ratrek]

@MN. 1 for standard, 1 for Battle Standard = 2

 

Page reference? I missed that somewhere.

[MexicanNinja]

@MN. 1 for standard, 1 for Battle Standard = 2

It's only +1.  He's a BSB not a standard.  If he was in a unit then he would get +2.  You get +1 for a standard and +1 for a BSB.  A BSB is not a standard, it's a BSB.

[rudra34]

@MN. 1 for standard, 1 for Battle Standard = 2

Nay.  The battle standard only ever counts for 1 CR.

[Munkie]

Yeah, I'd love a game. I like meeting and gaming with people I talk to on here. It helps remind me that y'all are real people, not just internet personalities. I live in Bellingham, WA though so I don't think well croats paths much. Are you in the PDX area? My brother lives down there and I could hit you up whenever I visit next.

 

The slann does only have CR1, unfortunately. So if you manage to somehow weave 10 dark riders around up to 36+4d6 poison shots per turn, 3 magic missiles, and all my redirectors and monsters, and into my slann, and he wiffs his attack, then you'd take 2 wounds off of him. Wounds that A) can be healed back with magic and B) I have 5 of.

 

On the other hand, if you lose even a single dark rider, the best you can do is 1 wound per combat phase (assuming musician). That's 5 combat phases to kill him. Plenty of time to bring in some support. I don't doubt your ability as a general, but that plan had zero margin of error based around 10 elves never taking a wound. That's a hail Mary play if there ever was one.

 

No, I think the best way to beat the list is to ignore the slann and focus on everything else. Which is, of course, is exactly what I want you to do as well. Add to the slann's role(s), he actually has 5 unique to him:

 

1. Strongest magic phase, both offensively and defensively.

2. Highest Ld general available

3. Most resilient BSB available

4. He can offer my monsters some static res if I need to really push it home.

5. Ridiculous VP denial.

 

But all armchair generalship, aside, I just like slann. I like the model, even if it is a frustrating brick on a toothpick. I like their fluff, their rules, and the concept just warms my cold blood.

[MexicanNinja]

Is the slann unstable when he becomes ethereal?  If not, he can still flee and be run down.  I run 30 dark riders with 4+ armour save and a unit of 5 warlocks.  Half my army is fast cav.  S3 shooting doesn't scare me much, poison or not.

 

In fact, I believe my shooting is more effective because I am getting a 4+ armour save while you don't get a save on your skinks from my RXbows (I don't think you are anyway, I can't remember if skinks are 5+ or 6+ scaly skin).

 

I'm not trying to get the dark riders into contact with the slann.  That was just an example.

 

But yes, I live in the PDX area.

[HeroZero]

News to me that the guy named battle STANDARD bearer doesn't count as holding a standard... Huh odd.

 

And yes ethereal slann are unstable. There's quite a long discussion on why temple guard under 30 models actually makes non ethereal slann easier to kill

 

Skinks javelineers have a 5+ armor save. 6+ scaly skin and shields.

[MexicanNinja]

Ok, cool beans on the skinks

 

Hero, the stadard isn't the same as the battle standard.  Characters only carry battle standards not standards.

[HeroZero]

MN- logic. Crazy talk.

 

Back to the list I like it. Looks a lot like.mine, I think it could use some revisions though.