Morale question

[Guest]

If my unit/army has one of those rules that says they only ever lose a single model to failed morale, and they are in range of your unit which has an ability which causes failed morale to lose extra models, which has priority?

[Guest]

For example, the Fallen have:

Quote

In addition, fallen units can ever lose more than one model as the result of any single failed Morale test; Any additional casualties beyond the first are ignored.

Further example, the Khorne Daemon Warlord Trait "aspect of death"

Quote

Each time an enemy unit failes a Morale test withing 8' of your Warlord, one additional models flees from that unit.

So does the Fallen thing override warlord trait?

[SPaceORK]

Overall, I don't know. I would guess the more restrictive rule applies?

In your example I would say the fallen rule applies and stops the warlord trait.

• Take moral.
• Fail, 1 guy runs.
• Warlord trait kicks in, 2 models flee.
• Fallen rules kicks in, says only one flees.

[WestRider]

Honestly, I can see reasonable arguments for three different scenarios:

1. Spork's scenario, where the Fallen rules overrides the other.
2. The Warlord Trait is a separate effect from the Morale test itself, so that lost Model isn't subject to the "one Model per Morale Test" limit
3. The Player whose Turn it is gets to choose which order they apply in, so if it's your turn, you would choose to apply the Warlord Trait first and then the Fallen rule to cap the loss at 1, but if it were on your Opponent's turn, they'd choose the opposite order to make the extra dude run away.

[SPaceORK]

28 minutes ago, WestRider said:

Honestly, I can see reasonable arguments for three different scenarios:

1. Spork's scenario, where the Fallen rules overrides the other.
2. The Warlord Trait is a separate effect from the Morale test itself, so that lost Model isn't subject to the "one Model per Morale Test" limit
3. The Player whose Turn it is gets to choose which order they apply in, so if it's your turn, you would choose to apply the Warlord Trait first and then the Fallen rule to cap the loss at 1, but if it were on your Opponent's turn, they'd choose the opposite order to make the extra dude run away.

I think its definitely 1 or 3. I'm actually inclined to think its 3. 

[WestRider]

Yeah, two feels like the least likely. I can't recall specific examples, but I know there have been other situations where the ruling ended up being basically number three.

[VonVilkee]

I like three more and more... other situations where caps and added top the test happen feel simultaneous. I really dig using the player turn interpretation of application (ie simultaneous resolution) to be a great compromise.

 

I've been using it for other always and never situations. Psychic powers always first vs relic always last etc just let your rule apply during your turn! Cleaner and everybody gets their way occasionally. 

[WestRider]

16 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

I like three more and more... other situations where caps and added top the test happen feel simultaneous. I really dig using the player turn interpretation of application (ie simultaneous resolution) to be a great compromise.

 

I've been using it for other always and never situations. Psychic powers always first vs relic always last etc just let your rule apply during your turn! Cleaner and everybody gets their way occasionally. 

I think the most hilarious instance of that was Kharne vs. Invisibility in 7th Ed. He would hit on 2+ on his Turn, and 6+ on the Opponent's Turn!

[Guest]

Wish it were more conclusive, but thanks for the help on this one.  

I just have 2 armies now that have a rule like the above (Fallen and Iyanden Eldar), so I figure I should know what to do if it comes up.

[Purajh]

I thought morale happened at the end of the round and not during a players turn.

Would that not make option 3 null and void?

[Guest]

Just now, Purajh said:

I thought morale happened at the end of the round and not during a players turn.

Would that not make option 3 null and void?

Pretty sure it happens at the end of each player's turn (last phase of a player turn). 

[Purajh]

1 minute ago, paxmiles said:

Pretty sure it happens at the end of each player's turn (last phase of a player turn). 

You are correct. That serves me right for posting before I have my morning coffee 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Purajh said:

You are correct. That serves me right for posting before I have my morning coffee 

Lol. Morning for you. I haven't gone to bed yet. I was also unsure due to being tired. I'm at that point where my eyesight drifts between clear and blurry. 

[SPaceORK]

I mean one of could ask on the warhammer community page? For a semi official answer.