List thought for OFCC, Chaos Daemons

[magnusthetraitor]

I've been working on my Chaos Daemons for this years OFCC. The list was originally a large posse of Flying Monstrous Creatures, bristling with psychic malice. Be'lakor was a constant prescence, and 7th edition made him pretty boss with the automatic Invisibility. I did pretty well with the list, but for OFCC I figured I'd prune back the flying nonsense and go with something a little more rounded. 

With Be'lakor gone, there are only two FMCs in the list, and the psychic dice are a pretty decent but not over the top 10. Plus his 350 point pricetag let me add in the Helbrute Mayhem Pack, so my Crimson Slaughter will be represented!

What do you think? Is this OP tournament gamer shenanigans, or good OFCC fun? 

Ugh, formating killed it. I'll type it out.

[magnusthetraitor]

Keeper of Secrets, Psyker 3, Greater Reward x2

Herald of Slaanesh, Steed, Psyker 1, Greater Reward x1, Greater Locus of Beguilement

Troops:
20 Daemonettes
10 Daemonettes

Fast
10 Flesh Hounds

Heavy
Slaanesh Daemon Prince, Psyker 3, Exalted x1, Greater x1, Wings, Armor

Slaanesh Daemon Prince, Psyker 3, Greater x2, Wings, Armor

Slaanesh Soul Grinder, Torrent

Formation: Helbrute Mayhem Pack
Helbrute w/ Multimelta and Power Fist
Helbrute w/ Multimelta and Power Scourge
Helbrute w/ Multimelta and Power Fist

[Guest Mr. Bigglesworth]

Looks great to me

[pretre]

That's a lot of MCs/walkers.

 

Plans on psychic powers?

[Steel Angel]

Ok the problem I have with deamon lists like these. (No not saying cheesy or op).

 

Is that they look small and manageable on paper. But have the potential to almost double in size each turn.

[pretre]

I think you are overestimating daemon farm.

 

http://www.ordofanaticus.com/index.php?/topic/21971-limitations-to-know-and-understand-for-summoned-daemons/

[Steel Angel]

Ummmm nope. Like I said list it self is not uber or cheesy. But any army(double when a deamon army) that can call 4 new units a turn can never to be overestimate.

[VonVilkee]

Demons have to be careful with what powers they do three psyker powers gives you either three rolls no primaris or two rolls one can be swapped to the primaris.

 

You can't roll all three and swap to the primaris. It is a little tricky and easy to miss but if you roll all your powers in one school you are not allowed to swap to the primaris.

 

If you roll all three on malific you get the primaris then lose it due to the demon rules. Odd interaction but actually brings the balance back just a touch.

[pretre]

Ummmm nope. Like I said list it self is not uber or cheesy. But any army(double when a deamon army) that can call 4 new units a turn can never to be overestimate.

He's got 10 WC naturally with a possibility of 16. He would have to be VERY lucky to get 4 WC3 powers off with 16 dice. 4 dice getting you three successes is pretty unlikely. And that assumes you don't kill a single psyker and all of his psykers get one of the summoning powers.

[VonVilkee]

I like it Magnus but you will struggle with knee jerk reactions of summoning ack! Petre seems to be leading the charge on education tho.

[magnusthetraitor]

Ummmm nope. Like I said list it self is not uber or cheesy. But any army(double when a deamon army) that can call 4 new units a turn can never to be overestimate.

So is every single list with 10+ psychic dice gonna get the "its gonna summon ALL THE DAEMONS" talk? Just because I have daemons as my army doesn't mean I'm a daemon summoning list, sir. You realize just about anyone can take that discipline, right? and you need to roll with 6+ dice to reliably get off a WC3 power? Don't discriminate against daemons due to a BRB power set. That's racist! :-)

 

 

That's a lot of MCs/walkers.

 

Plans on psychic powers?

 

Telepathy on the Keeper hoping for Shrouded or Invis to keep himself alive past turn 1 (5++ base, ouch!), and Biomancy on the Princes usually trying for Iron Arm so I can crack transports with their Lash of Despair. The Herald is new to me, but I am planning on either rolling Telepathy for Shriek to give her a nice ranged attack in the backfield, or the dreaded Malefic to get Cursed Earth or Summoning to give me options when she comes in. 

 

2x FMCs, 1x MC, 4x Walkers. That's a good amount. Fewer FMCs than Tyranids usually bring, and fewer walkers than the dreaded Ork Kanwall. Also my MCs sometimes die to the Warp Storm table on my own turn. :-p

[pretre]

Yeah, I think it's cool and I figured you were going to say something like that for disciplines.

 

I'm thinking 2-2.5 ish.

[Steel Angel]

Sigh. Just because Someone does not agree on threat lvl of an army dose not mean they need to be schooled about how it works.

 

I said list was fine. I would play against it anytime, But plz don't say that I dont have to worry about an army that can bring between 11-16 power dice to be split between 3 lvl 3 MC. That dont really need to worry about miscasting is no big threat.

 

But I said my peace And its just my opinion.

[magnusthetraitor]

Demons have to be careful with what powers they do three psyker powers gives you either three rolls no primaris or two rolls one can be swapped to the primaris.

 

You can't roll all three and swap to the primaris. It is a little tricky and easy to miss but if you roll all your powers in one school you are not allowed to swap to the primaris.

 

If you roll all three on malific you get the primaris then lose it due to the demon rules. Odd interaction but actually brings the balance back just a touch.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. Here is how I do it:

 

My way: Level 1 Slaanesh Daemon has Chaos Focus. Daemon automatically knows the Excess Primaris. Now, before the game begins, I roll on Telepathy, and roll Terrify. I say "that sucks!" and swap for Primaris, getting Psychic Shriek. 

 

End result: Herald has Excess primaris, and Telepathy Primaris. 

 

I never get normal Psychic Focus, because I already automatically know an Excess power. Remember you don't roll all the dice to generate at the same time! It is one by one. 

 

Magnus

[magnusthetraitor]

Sigh. Just because Someone does not agree on threat lvl of an army dose not mean they need to be schooled about how it works.

 

I said list was fine. I would play against it anytime, But plz don't say that I dont have to worry about an army that can bring between 11-16 power dice to be split between 3 lvl 3 MC. That dont really need to worry about miscasting is no big threat.

 

But I said my peace And its just my opinion.

I don't understand the "no need to worry about miscasting" part. My FMC got a Perils, took a wound and lost the power I'd wanted to cast, then failed a grounded test cause she took a wound, flopped down on the ground in front of a gunline with only two wounds left... in my own Psychic phase on turn 1 or 2. I want to know how to not miscast. :-)

 

 

 

[Steel Angel]

only on a roll of 2 do you lose the power. so to sum up a roll of 1 or 2 bad. as for the rest whats 1 wound to a creature with 4 to 5 wounds.

 

 

But let me try to rephrase what i am saying. Your list is fine. what bothers me is just looking at it it is hard to tell how it will be played. you may not take any demonology or you may take it all. which can range from normal threat to high threat, but just by looking at list I can't tell, and that what i hate about them. 

[pretre]

The problem is that a big psychic list just isn't that good anymore. He's got 10 WC and he's going to struggle to get one power off for each caster.

 

Individual powers can be more powerful but you need tons of charge to get them off. Often, you'll have to take casters who just donate charge instead f casting themselves.

[VonVilkee]

I have no idea what you are talking about here. Here is how I do it:

My way: Level 1 Slaanesh Daemon has Chaos Focus. Daemon automatically knows the Excess Primaris. Now, before the game begins, I roll on Telepathy, and roll Terrify. I say "that sucks!" and swap for Primaris, getting Psychic Shriek. 

End result: Herald has Excess primaris, and Telepathy Primaris. 

I never get normal Psychic Focus, because I already automatically know an Excess power. Remember you don't roll all the dice to generate at the same time! It is one by one. 

Magnus

Interesting point, I read it different as you would be rolling all your powers on one table you get psychic focus and power rules on pg 23 couldn't swap. Then chaos focus kicks in and you lose focus. Checking again reading in order kinda doesn't work and your way is totally playable... I thought that the loss of the ability to easily swap down to the primaris helped balance farming. Maybe I'm wrong as both psychic foci happen at the same time. The chaos one technically doesn't replace standard focus. Standard focus would be lost when the chaos focus is applied...

[magnusthetraitor]

The chaos one technically doesn't replace standard focus. Standard focus would be lost when the chaos focus is applied...

I figure the model is a Chaos Daemon of Slaanesh before I decided what powers to generate (since I picked him/her out of the codex before the Before the Game step when you generate powers), so it probably already has a power and I would never have a time when I had all my powers from, say Telepathy. So I don't lose standard Psychic Focus, it just never comes up due to already knowing a power from an separate discipline before I start generating.

 

I can see how a fellow would argue that you apply the Chaos Psychic Focus later, after you generated powers. In that case, yeah, things would get complicated! :-)

 

Magnus

[VonVilkee]

And that complication means I'm prolly wrong...I applied them in ordo from top to bottom of the book.

 

I see no problem running it your way playing you as you are not taking malefic powers but I might be a dick if somebody was was trying to deamon farm...

 

Next bit isn't helpful and isn't the way I'd play it unless it was that guy across the table from me...

 

Clearly stated powers, which chaos focus would count as, are never generated. They are in addition to all other powers. In order to add things together you must have generated powers the you can add focus or specific powers.

 

The key is that chaos focus is added not generated and does not replace regular focus. Then the game starts and you lose psychic focus as of that moment of the game you have a power not of the same discipline and lose focus and the regular focus. I note that chaos focus is not lost if you get other powers...

 

Just me being a dick to a dick if it ever could happen.

[magnusthetraitor]

So whats the opinion on dropping the Helbrutes for Be'lakor? Is that a downgrade or an upgrade?

[pretre]

Upgrade. Bellakor might be too good for OfCc. ;)

[PourSpelur]

Go Hellbrutes. Why? Because...HELLBRUTE!

Cool models that never see table-time.

[AbusePuppy]

Belakor brings Invisibility, which is strong, but I don't think he's so strong you couldn't use him no matter what. I mean, for one everyone is already snap shooting at FMCs anyways, so it's not nearly as strong as it could be.

 

The Helbrute formations are all pretty solid, so I don't think you're punishing yourself to use any of them.

[pretre]

Agreed. But Belakor with a solid daemon list goes into 3.5 territory.