Flyers gaining cover

[Kaoshin]

I've been considering taking some Tau Remora Stealth Drones and after a series of questions in a number of places I've established that the official ruling as supported by the BRB is that the Remora, despite currently being a flyer, uses the base that it comes with. In this case that means a skimmer base. So to make sure I'm not about to start cheating I'm going to put this question out there.

 

Do flyers gain cover from being obscured by terrain?

 

My investigation through the BRB tells me that yes they do but I just want to be sure. The reasoning I'm following right now is that tthey are a vehicle and therefore must be 25% obscured to gain said cover save, but that in this case the upside to the Remora being down closer to ground level (where targets being obstructed from line of sight and rapidfire bolter fire are much more common) is that it is much easier for it to gain a cover save without jinking from terrain. So far I haven't found a rule stating that flyers, whether in hover mode or not, are unable to benefit from being obscured like any other vehicle.

[pretre]

Same as other vehicles, just harder since it is up in the air.

[WestRider]

Yep. It is usually more difficult for them, but if they can manage 25% concealment, either due to tall intervening Terrain or coming supplied with unusual Bases, they get the Cover Save.

[fluger]

Yes they do.  

[pretre]

Stormwolves are good for this too, since they ride so low.

[Kaoshin]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the prompt answers!

[splinx]

Stormwolves are good for this too, since they ride so low.

"All my friends know the low rider,

The low rider is a little higher"

[Guest]

Do flyers gain cover from being obscured by terrain?

Flyers, like other units, always use the "best" save (if any). If the "best" save is from terrain, they use that.

 

It is notable that [vehicle] Flyers include their wings when determining 25% concealment, so attaining cover saves can be very difficult.

[pretre]

Flyers, like other units, always use the "best" save (if any). If the "best" save is from terrain, they use that.

 

It is notable that [vehicle] Flyers include their wings when determining 25% concealment, so attaining cover saves can be very difficult.

Unless you have short stubby wings like Stormwolves... :)

 

Anyone know what my favorite flyer?

[Aventine]

Or if you have the profile of a Land Speeder, like a Remora...

[Guest]

Or if you have the profile of a Land Speeder, like a Remora...

Did they dramatically increase the weapons on that Remora? I don't recall it being very offensively impressive. Cheap, certainly, but nothing overpowered, even with solid cover access.

[pretre]

I think he means the physical profile.

[Guest]

I think he means the physical profile.

I got that, but I've seen this one before and it seems to generate a lot more discussion than I think that model deserves. In all honesty, being shorter means less ability to shoot things, especially as a flyer which has a limited turn arc and limit on minimum speed.

[Kaoshin]

I got that, but I've seen this one before and it seems to generate a lot more discussion than I think that model deserves. In all honesty, being shorter means less ability to shoot things, especially as a flyer which has a limited turn arc and limit on minimum speed.

A bit, yeah. The Long-Barrel Burst Cannons got upped to being Heavy 6 with a range of 36." So for 90 points you get a small profile flyer with 2 hull points, hover mode, shrouded, 6 twin-linked S5 AP5 shots, two seeker missiles, and a networked marker light.

[AbusePuppy]

It's the cheapest flyer around, but you get what you pay for. Six shots with mediocre Ballistic Skill and S5 aren't really impressing anyone. (The Markerlight is nice when it works, though, as Skyfire MLs are always valuable.)

 

It's not as terrible as it used to be when it was 110pts and only three shots with the Burst, but it's still not all that great.

[Guest]

Did the [iG] skytalon get upgraded in cost? Used to be the cheapest flyer at 70pts.

[pretre]

Ig could get sky talons?

[Kaoshin]

It's the cheapest flyer around, but you get what you pay for. Six shots with mediocre Ballistic Skill and S5 aren't really impressing anyone. (The Markerlight is nice when it works, though, as Skyfire MLs are always valuable.)

 

It's not as terrible as it used to be when it was 110pts and only three shots with the Burst, but it's still not all that great.

True it's probably not going to be killing anything too far above it's weight-class in a single round of shooting without expending both seeker missiles. Not if you're running just one anyway, though I can see value in 2-3 of them. Probably 2. 270's a lot outside of appoc, but I've also ready some interesting reports of using them as good aggressive objective grabbers. Either go hover mode and flat out over to one with a very respectable cover save even out in the open, or zoom over, and next turn switch to hover mode to capture objective. The big thing to note also is that it carries a networked marker light, so if accuracy is a concern and 75% chance to hit on the 6 S5 shots isn't enough it's got a 50% chance to kick itself up to BS4 for all 6 twin-linked shots and both missiles as well. That and one only being 90 points it really doesn't need to work that hard or just get a little lucky to make it's points back. A couple wounds off an MC, drop another flyer, or heck even get into the back arc of most of the vehicles out there and take off a couple hull points and it's earned it's points value.

[AbusePuppy]

Well, I tend to compare it to something like the Stormtalon- the Guppy is a bit more (20-35pts), but more than doubles your firepower on most turns and is BS4 natively plus the benefits of Strafing Run. Shrouded obviously gives the Remora a big advantage, but AV11 on the Guppy does as well (anyone who runs AV10 knows what it's like to die to Bolters.) And, looked at from that perspective, I'd call the Remora middling but not terrible- it can be a durable-ish unit, but even 2+s fail and Serpents or Smart Missiles or any of a dozen other things don't care about your Jink save.

[Guest]

Ig could get sky talons?

Astra Militarum, now. Sky Talon, I'm pretty sure, is the Valk variant that transports sentinels and tauros, which was able to be taken as a fast slot squadron, base 70pts each. Pretty weak flyers, but dirt cheap. Not sure if they went up when the valk and vendetta went up.

 

EDIT: Yes, still ITC legal. 70pts for a flyer. IA: Aero. Technically called, "Valkyrie Sky Talon Transport"

[Guest]

True it's probably not going to be killing anything too far above it's weight-class in a single round of shooting without expending both seeker missiles. Not if you're running just one anyway, though I can see value in 2-3 of them. Probably 2. 270's a lot outside of appoc, but I've also ready some interesting reports of using them as good aggressive objective grabbers. Either go hover mode and flat out over to one with a very respectable cover save even out in the open, or zoom over, and next turn switch to hover mode to capture objective. The big thing to note also is that it carries a networked marker light, so if accuracy is a concern and 75% chance to hit on the 6 S5 shots isn't enough it's got a 50% chance to kick itself up to BS4 for all 6 twin-linked shots and both missiles as well. That and one only being 90 points it really doesn't need to work that hard or just get a little lucky to make it's points back. A couple wounds off an MC, drop another flyer, or heck even get into the back arc of most of the vehicles out there and take off a couple hull points and it's earned it's points value.

Can't increase the BS on missile shots per say. Seeker missiles either expend a marker to fire at BS5, or fire at base BS. Can't use markers to improve seekers otherwise. Might be wrong here.

[WestRider]

I hadn't really looked at it from that point of view, but the Sky Talon actually makes a pretty decent gunship. Especially the D-99 version from The Anphelion Project: 85 Points for a 12/12/10 Flyer with 2 BS4 Rocket Pods and a Heavy Bolter.

[Guest]

I hadn't really looked at it from that point of view, but the Sky Talon actually makes a pretty decent gunship. Especially the D-99 version from The Anphelion Project: 85 Points for a 12/12/10 Flyer with 2 BS4 Rocket Pods and a Heavy Bolter.

Skytalon is decent, especially as the other valks got a point increase and it didn't. I very much like the idea of deep striking sentinels, but those drop sentinels need their points re-looked at if they want that unit to ever be fielded.

[WestRider]

Yeah, I always kind of overlooked it, because the stuff it can carry is mediocre at best, but it's not bad if you need a cheap Anti-Infantry ground attack Flyer.

[fluger]

Can't increase the BS on missile shots per say. Seeker missiles either expend a marker to fire at BS5, or fire at base BS. Can't use markers to improve seekers otherwise. Might be wrong here.

 

You are, that was old Tau codex, new codex allows them to be fired like a hunter killer missile as well.  You can use markerlights to increase BS.  A normal use for this is getting 3 marker lights on something and then firing a full salvo from a Sky Ray (6 missiles) at BS5 (since the SR is BS4 base) with ignore cover.